Upper Harlem - Wassaic Extension - Questions, Info

Metro-North is not a common carrier under federal regulations, and therefore does not have the authority to accept freight shipments. If a shipper on the line wanted rail service, they would have to convince HRRC or CSX to service their facility.

Jim

Maybrook fan wrote:I'm a tad off subject but my question is; If some type of freight customer wanted to use the line now. Does Housatonic still have the trackage rights to upper Harlem or would Metro north have to pull the freight ?


Also I'm a NY resident and think we are over taxed also,
But just to keep things on a fair playing field, Ct. DOT does kick money and equipiment into Metro North.

The answer is no, the HHRC has given up all freight rights on entire Harlem line, wich they had via Danbury Terminal Railroad, a company now desolved and part of Housatonic Transportation Company

As for your second statement CDOT provides enough equipment to cover connecticut operation, they do not supply equipment for service in New York.
For Every CDOT car running in New York, MNCR has to supply more than 1 in Connecticut, due to shortage of M-2's

Metro-North does not and will not charge different fares to residents of other states. If they did, they would be sued out of existence. You could not require someone to show proof of residence to purchase a railroad ticket. People have argued that they should charge different rates at the parking facilities at the train stations and they won't do that either.

I think EL was referring to parking charges, not fares.

Wasn't the original reasoning for the Wassaic extension / reactivation infrastructure related, i.e. a fuel pad, or overnight storage, or such? Not because northern Dutchess was demaning it (although I'm sure Route 22 was or is pretty bad).

If NW CT or Western MA needs service, it would be easier (although not easy) to extend past Danbury up the HRRR, covered separately in the forum (to Pittsfield instead of Chatham). You could also run a Harlem branch up the Beacon, but you'd get stuck at Hopewell since those tracks were torn up. Either is a pet foamer idea of mine.

Sarge wrote:I think EL was referring to parking charges, not fares.

Exactly. And while MNR doesn't currently charge different parking fees based on residency, there is ample precedent for them to do so, and indeed the fee structure is set up to allow it if they wanted to do it. So that's how you'd get around the issue of non-residents getting a service for less than residents.

Jim

Sarge you said on the Beacon you'd get stuck at Hopewell due to torn up tracks. What happened to the tracks at Hopewell ??

As fas as I know, the Beacon Line is intact from Beacon, through Hopewell, to Dykemans the the state line. But that has zilch to do with a northward extension of the Harlem Line.

-otto-

Sarge wrote:Wasn't the original reasoning for the Wassaic extension / reactivation infrastructure related, i.e. a fuel pad, or overnight storage, or such? Not because northern Dutchess was demaning it (although I'm sure Route 22 was or is pretty bad).

Found an interesting New York Times article from 1993, shortly after the extension was first proposed.

The article mentions the fact that there's no room to expand parking at Dover Plains as a "factor" in the decision. It also gives the impression that the Town of Amenia doesn't necessarily mind bringing in commuters from non-MTA-taxpaying areas of Connecticut or Massachusetts, because they feel they've been in a "slump" since Penn Central cut the line back to Dover Plains in 1972. I think the implication is that commuters would spend money at nearby stores, adding to the town's sales tax revenue.

Sure enough, an NYT article from "opening day" in 2000 cites the number of CT and MA license plates in the Dover Plains parking lot. (It also mentions "plans" to revive the Beacon Line, which I found pretty humorous.)

As for route 22 congestion, I believe I had heard/read a lot about that playing a role too... but my search of Google News Archives didn't seem to turn up anything.

I wouldn't doubt the ability to build a yard or a fueling station were pluses too. If there wasn't room to expand for the sake of customers at Dover Plains, you can safely assume there wasn't room to expand for the sake of train maintenance/storage either.

While I've been to Dover Plains many times as a kid (we had family friends who lived there), I never got up early enough to see the "pre-rush" morning setup back when the line ended there. Did they have trains lined up (north of the station) or did they just shuttle/deadhead the morning peak? I would imagine the yard in Wassaic makes it much easier to provide through peak service.

Wassaic has no fueling capabilities, fueling is done in Brewster or in Highbridge/Harmon

Before the extension to Wassaic they would deadhead the through trains equipment north from Brewster in the morning and back south in the evening. This was with much less through service - there was only 1 through train each way from 1992 to 1997, and then 2 through trains each way from 1997 to 2000.

If I recall correctly, when #3955 was the only northbound through train, the evening operation at Dover Plains went like this: 3955 would come in on the main track, drop the passengers off, head north of the siding switch, and then back into the siding. A little while later, the shuttle would pull in on the main track (as a revenue train), and 3955's equipment would deadhead back to Brewster. The shuttle would then lay over until it made the next revenue run back to Brewster North. I recall them doing this even when the low level's were in use, which makes me wonder why they didn't just pave the area between the siding and the main track (as it was many years ago, like at most stations with passing sidings) and allow 3955 to come in on the siding.

Maybrook fan wrote:Sarge you said on the Beacon you'd get stuck at Hopewell due to torn up tracks. What happened to the tracks at Hopewell ??

Sorry, I wasn't clear: I was referring to the Maybrook main (the one that ran to P'Keepsie and over the infamous bridge).

The tracks to Beacon from Hopewell (Beacon Secondary) are indeed intact.

Erie-Lackawanna wrote:

UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:...you can't tax the people from these neighboring states for using the line. After all, Metro-North is a public transportation entity.

Sure you can. Wanna park there? No problem. NYS registrations in MTA region pay $217 a year. NYS registrations out of MTA region pay $350 a year. Other state registrations pay $500 a year. Daily fees scaled accordingly.

Done.

Jim

Not to mention that anybody from any state who is comuting on the Harlem to a job in NY (which is probably everybody, even those who commute to WP) is paying NY Income taxes on their salary --- don't forget that. Until we moved to NY 2 1/2 years ago, I had lived in CT, worked in NY, and paid NY Income taxes for the previous 36 years!

Income tax has nothing to do with money allocated for transportatiuon including MTA tax.

I searched Wassaic, but couldn't find an answer on point for this question (at least, not after going through about 20 pages):

When MNRR decided to extend to Wassaic, I know Wassaic was chosen as the end point as the rails were still in place for freight service (which I believe CR had basically abandoned). Otto mentioned in another thread about an extension being considered to Millerton as well as Wassaic. Why was Millerton being considered and ultimately not pursued in lieu of Wassaic?

italics portion edited for clarity

I know of absolutely no millerton extension, the drawings I got for Wassaic yard predate initial work by 3 years, the yard included the end of track 2 cars beyond last switch.
Again I am not aware of any millerton extension.