Tunnel Box

Don31 wrote:

25Hz wrote:

Thomas wrote:It appears that Amtrak got the engineering dimensions of the tunnel box completed in a rather short time. Now, it would nice if Amtrak could also expedite engineering for the other segments of the Gateway Project once funding becomes available...

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Like i said before, there are 3 phases. First phase involves a re-align of the elizabeth S curve, and other interlocking-y physical plant-y stuff in NJ allowing for maximum capacity use of the new trans-hudson tunnels.

Lot of attention is being payed to the new tunnels, and forgotten is all the work that will be done in NJ, work that will fix existing issues as well as help tie in the new tunnels. As i've said before, this is no less than a regional megaproject, and if i'm ever going to be a foamer, it's going to be over this whole thing being completed and in service with the new ACS locos.... but, you gotta have patience grasshopper!

Elizabeth and the rest of the NJ work west of Newark are not part of the Gateway program. They're part of NEC-UP, the 2015-2025 upgrade program.

I'm basing this on amtrak pdf's. If i read it wrong then all apologies!

http://www.northplainfield.org/Press_Re ... Amtrak.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's one of several.

25Hz wrote:

Don31 wrote:

25Hz wrote:

Thomas wrote:It appears that Amtrak got the engineering dimensions of the tunnel box completed in a rather short time. Now, it would nice if Amtrak could also expedite engineering for the other segments of the Gateway Project once funding becomes available...

.

Like i said before, there are 3 phases. First phase involves a re-align of the elizabeth S curve, and other interlocking-y physical plant-y stuff in NJ allowing for maximum capacity use of the new trans-hudson tunnels.

Lot of attention is being payed to the new tunnels, and forgotten is all the work that will be done in NJ, work that will fix existing issues as well as help tie in the new tunnels. As i've said before, this is no less than a regional megaproject, and if i'm ever going to be a foamer, it's going to be over this whole thing being completed and in service with the new ACS locos.... but, you gotta have patience grasshopper!

Elizabeth and the rest of the NJ work west of Newark are not part of the Gateway program. They're part of NEC-UP, the 2015-2025 upgrade program.

I'm basing this on amtrak pdf's. If i read it wrong then all apologies!

http://www.northplainfield.org/Press_Re ... Amtrak.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's one of several.

Take a look at Page 7 of your link. What you're talking about is the NJ High Speed Improvement Program.

I have heard that the tunnel box will (eventually) be extended to 12th avenue--which is where tunnel boring would begin to the Bergen Portals.

Thomas wrote:I have heard that the tunnel box will (eventually) be extended to 12th avenue--which is where tunnel boring would begin to the Bergen Portals.

No it won't. The box itself will be between 10th and 11th Avenues only.

Are you saying that tunnel boring will essentially continue from New Jersey all the way to 11th avenue and 31st street?

Thomas wrote:Are you saying that tunnel boring will essentially continue from New Jersey all the way to 11th avenue and 31st street?

No. Its my understanding that the boring will stop near the shoreline and then transition to cut-and-cover. The tunnel box is only needed between 10th and 11th because of the platform overbuild.

But they are probably still deciding which street (30th or 31st) the tunnels will actually enter Manhattan.

Amtrak is expected to begin preliminary engineering on Penn South in 2014. I just hope that eminent domain issues and lawsuits do not make the Gateway Project an impossible one to complete!!

Thomas wrote:But they are probably still deciding which street (30th or 31st) the tunnels will actually enter Manhattan.

Amtrak is expected to begin preliminary engineering on Penn South in 2014. I just hope that eminent domain issues and lawsuits do not make the Gateway Project an impossible one to complete!!

Its been my understanding that it would be just south of 30th Street.

Thomas wrote:
Amtrak is expected to begin preliminary engineering on Penn South in 2014. I just hope that eminent domain issues and lawsuits do not make the Gateway Project an impossible one to complete!!

It is my understanding that much of the ROW will be on the same of path as NJT's forlorn ARC. I believe eminent domain had been taken care of or was at least in the process of being taken care of. NJT still owns vacant warehouse property on the Jersey side of the Hudson that it was intending to demolish in relation to ARC and the alignment of ARC and Gateway in New Jersey are nearly identical.

Hawaiitiki wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Amtrak is expected to begin preliminary engineering on Penn South in 2014. I just hope that eminent domain issues and lawsuits do not make the Gateway Project an impossible one to complete!!

It is my understanding that much of the ROW will be on the same of path as NJT's forlorn ARC. I believe eminent domain had been taken care of or was at least in the process of being taken care of. NJT still owns vacant warehouse property on the Jersey side of the Hudson that it was intending to demolish in relation to ARC and the alignment of ARC and Gateway in New Jersey are nearly identical.

Some test boring was already done along the right of way in NJ and the warehouse was already demolished. From Newark to the tunnel mouth there's really only one ROW anyway... not much room to vary.

With the Gateway Project, I am concerned about eminent domain issues in Manhattan, especially on Block 780 and between 11th and 12 avenues...

If the bottom of the tunnel (or tunnel box) is expected to be 45 feet below street level at 10th avenue, and 65 feet below street level at 11th avenue, does that mean that it will be approximately 80 or feet below street level around 12th avenue (where the Hudson River is)?

Thomas wrote:With the Gateway Project, I am concerned about eminent domain issues in Manhattan, especially on Block 780 and between 11th and 12 avenues...

If the bottom of the tunnel (or tunnel box) is expected to be 45 feet below street level at 10th avenue, and 65 feet below street level at 11th avenue, does that mean that it will be approximately 80 or feet below street level around 12th avenue (where the Hudson River is)?

I don't understand your concern about eminent domain.

The top of the rail will be 29 feet below grade at 10th Avenue and 47 feet below grade at 11th Avenue. I don't know the exact distance between 11th and 12th Avenues but the line will be built with an effective grade of 2.1%.

1. I am concerned about the potential for businesses to refuse to move once Block 780 gets razed for Penn South.

2. Is below grade different from below street level?

Thomas wrote:1. I am concerned about the potential for businesses to refuse to move once Block 780 gets razed for Penn South.

2. Is below grade different from below street level?

1. Thats what eminent domain is for. Those businesses that cant reach a negotiated settlement would be condemned.

2. Generally speaking they are the same.

What is more likely to occur first--the Gateway Project or new Baltimore tunnels?