• Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by Bigt
 
The OBPA is run by a board. Every member is approved and appointed by the Governor of the State.
When their individual terms expire they must once again go through a confirmation. Until we get a
Governor who is a supporter of the rail industry, and, is therefore ready to exert his influence, I doubt
we will ever see any movement in the form of the OBPA making major improvements in the current
rail transportation network in the North Country. In the past few years they have had to rely on outside
funding sources to make improvements to even be able to keep trains moving on the line. True, that
was before Vermont Rail became involved. It is difficult to say where they may or may not play into the
overall picture of the future of the Ogdensburg to Norwood line. Regardless of other opinions, there is
certainly potential for the Port of Ogdensburg and future rail traffic that would result.

As for the St. Lawrence Sub. and the State of New York. Once again, I view part of the problem with the
fact that we have not had a Governor or Legislature in my memory that was even remotely interested in rail transportation.
That is unless it involved high speed rail to / for the great "promised land" of New York City that all our
Governors seem to worship. Add to the fact that in this State many rail transportation issues fall under the
auspices of the State Department of Transportation. Yes, the same people who go about as authorities
in all matters involving highways - State and Local - have a great say in the rail policy of this State. During
the Ice Storm of 1998, the State agency that I work for, and, the government leaders of St. Lawrence
County's various emergency departments, learned all too well what it was like to work with the leaders of the
State DOT when is came to moving trains through the North Country. Yes, some of the "hold-ups" were because
of Federal regulations, but, most were the doing of NYSDOT. When, days after the storm had hit, they wanted
to move their "rescue train" through the North Country bringing needed supplies. Many hoops had to be jumped
through to provide the manpower and resources that NYSDOT required for crossing and signal safety. As an
example, with every fire and rescue department in the County activated since the storm began, with countless
numbers of members of these departments available to protect all the unlit crossings - with proper turnout gear
and "lighted" fire trucks and rescues - that was deemed not allowed by the NYSDOT official on the train. His
determination was that every crossing had to be protected by an uniformed police officer - Trooper, Deputy or
village Patrolman. He even suggest that all bridges would be patrolled by uniformed officers before "his" train
would / could proceed. Needless to say, the second "wish" did not come true. I might add that up to the day this train came
through, the railroad was moving their own trains - North and South - with their own crews, stopping at all
crossings and flagging same with their own crewman. There was no requirement then for an uniformed police
officer.....not until NYSDOT got involved. An example of a NYSDOT "power".

If and when the State Government ever becomes really dedicated to rail transportation, I believe that is when we will see a
much needed change in the government attitude toward the railroad industry in New York State.
It probably will not mean NYS as an owner, but, many of the detriments to rail and rail associated industry / business will have
a much better chance of being removed. As one of the earlier posts stated, this line was inspected by a number of
potential buyers, but, none of them were willing to pay the ridiculous price that CSX wanted. Personally, I would like to
see the same thing happen again. Even with this economy I think there would be surprising interest shown.
  by Leo_Ames
 
goodnightjohnwayne wrote:
Matt Langworthy wrote:
As I understand it, the Ogdensburg Port Authority pays for itself and doesn't require additional funding from the gov't. Therefore, I don't view it as a problem.
Don't believe it for a second. There have been many taxpayer funded grants over the years, totaling in the millions. Just as important, bridge tolls have been diverted to prop up the port and ex-Rutland line.
Their financials are public knowledge and easily available online for viewing. You don't have to believe anything, spend 10 minutes with a search engine.
goodnightjohnwayne wrote:
SemperFidelis wrote:Pardon me if we're talkng about a different portion of the line but I couldn't read through all of the pages.

I would assume that the US Army would still be considered a very active shipper. Given our foreign policy outlook I would make an educated guess that the Army would still like to have active rail to Fort Drum for deployments, training and returning units.
I can assure you that personnel aren't moved by rail and have been for decades.

"Ports of embarkation?" The WWII built troop ships have been scrapped over the decades. The rmy moves personnel by air, not by rail and sea.
While I'm unaware of any major personnel movements of United States troops by sea since the Vietnam War (Although it's interesting to note that the British moved virtually their entire invasion force during the Falklands War in 1982 through use of several passenger liners), the SS United States came this close to being turned into a troop ship by the USN during the 80s after seeing the success the British had in the Falklands.

They're at least getting back to personnel movements by rail in a small way. The military (I forget which branch) just recently bought a fair bit of surplus equipment off VRE to move personnel between two bases.
  by SemperFidelis
 
That VRE purchase was the US Army. Had it been the Marines it wouldn't have been modern equipment but rather a surplus 3 truck Shay (with only 2 trucks in place) and some wooden coaches from the Gravity Railroad. But we would have loved that little train and made it work.

A vast amount of equipment and vehicles still move by rail whenever a large deployment occurs, but troop trains haven't been around since the 70s I believe.
  by roadster
 
While a majority of the equipment still moves by train, wheeled or not, it is simply more economic. Now, besides the machines, military trains move hundreds of containers of supplies, and smaller equipment. Those containers are loaded on container ships leased for the purpose of hauling the military containers to the deployment region. While personel are mostly transported by air, a great deal of the actual equipment and supplies are sent by rail and container ship.
  by x1sspic
 
roadster, have you heard anything about the NE dispatching desk being combined (eliminated) with another "desk?" The Q621 crew was just chatting with the NE dispatcher, who was commented on CSX combining desks; apparently the dispatcher desk taking over includes territory with mountains and problems with stalled trains "over there."

Scott
  by roadster
 
Yes, I don't know the particulars, but was told by a dsp. that the desk is in Philadelphia, Pa.. I suspect the change over will occure sometime this fall, after the CN trains are discontinued and only local and road switchers are left on the line.
  by x1sspic
 
Bigt wrote:Where is the NE dispatch desk now located?
I believe all the Albany Division dispatch desks are in Selkirk. The NE dispatchers always answer the radio as "CSX NE Dispatch Selkirk"

Scott
  by Matt Langworthy
 
roadster wrote:Who said, NYS was the only potential bidder?
Goodnightjohnwayne made the claim that NYS would be the party most likely to buy the St. Lawrence Sub. I haven't seen any evidence to support his claim.

roadster wrote:4 years ago a dozen short line/regional operators toured the line, but rejected the Base bidding price CSX had stated. There are a number of interested parties, just none willing to pay what CSX wants at this time. NYS has never been involved in the process.


Did VRS or GWI express an interest in the line? IMO, they'd be good stewards of the St. Lawrence Sub.
  by lvrr325
 
My sources told me the interested bidders on the line were all private interests, and the state wasn't involved.

Further, the state doesn't have the money to buy it even if they wanted to - that itself is an entire other topic, but even if that was a remote possibility, it would have to wait until next year when things will most likely return to the status Cuomo in Albany.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
And ain't it funny that when NYS has an opportunity to get some federal money for a rail project, they don't use it on the St. Lawrence Sub? According to http://www.empirestatenews.net/News/20100830-3.html -it looks like the state of NY is more concerned with the Southern Tier Mainline. None of the federal TIGER funds will be used in the North Country... which basically proves the state isn't interested in buying the St. Lawrence Sub. If the Syracuse-Massena corridor is going to be "rescued", I don't think the state will have any involvement at all.
  by lvrr325
 
About 10:30 the FRA car went up towed backwards behind what looked like a 7500 (8-40C), followed hot on his heels at 11 by another northbound; looks like the train for CN; second unit was a 4500 (SD80MAC? definately a big, late EMD) -
  by roadster
 
Just a regular FRA periodic inspection, don't read anything into it. Accordin g to my rule book, 4500-4589 are early production, 4000hp, SD70AC without the wide radiator wings. 4700 - 4830 are the next generation SD70AC's with the radiator wings and rated at 4300hp. The SD80MAC's are suppose to be 4590-4602. But the book also lists an SD40 class as 4601 - 4621. Go figure.
  by x1sspic
 
lvrr325 wrote:About 10:30 the FRA car went up towed backwards behind what looked like a 7500 (8-40C), followed hot on his heels at 11 by another northbound; looks like the train for CN; second unit was a 4500 (SD80MAC? definately a big, late EMD) -
The FRA inspection train arrived in Massena a couple of hours ago, sounded like they were going to tie down there. They had the CSXT 7616 for power, and FRA car 219. They met the southbound Q620 (they should be somewhere near Gouverneur now) in Norwood. Here is the inspection train near QM151:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAcc5CvjOOk

Scott
  by tree68
 
They must being making the rounds of the area - that's probably the same car that was on the Adirondack Scenic and the MA&N last Thursday. I just missed seeing it first hand as it was headed south out of Thendara as the morning ADIX train was headed into the station.
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