The 470 Railroad Club (Equipment and Activities)

Don't bother Bill, doesn't look like they are going to listen to you. Steam fans, or new volunteer blood isn't wanted if it is "tainted" with the 501. I think the only way it's going to change if you and a few of us steam friendly people make it change come election time.

steamer69 wrote:

ericofmaine wrote:That and all the money we already dumped in that is now wasted as it would all need to be redone to meet the new FRA specs.

Um....How's that? The parts you had made are only being wasted because you guys won't put them on....the money you "dumped" into it pales in comparison with what you are about to spend by the time you're done with "Frankinengine"....and what in the Part 230 did you get certified? I really wish you would stop talking in half truths...kind of when you said "was not even on the board (possibly not even a member) when this all went down", but witnesses put you working on the 501 helping to test superheater tubes....and the newsletters have you listed as a trustee.

Listed as a trustee, absolutely. Given, however, I'm in my 30's, makes it pretty difficult for me to have been around when any of this work was done, so, perhaps in this case it is you that needs to check some facts as well.

Eric

ericofmaine wrote:Given, however, I'm in my 30's, makes it pretty difficult for me to have been around when any of this work was done

How's that? you would have been 17 or 18 when the work was being done....there is no difficulty there at all. I have young guys that volunteer with me who are 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Not difficult at all. And what does that have to do with the fact that you were denying being a trustee. Bad form to say that "I personally could care less if she runs again or ends up as scrap as I have no vested interest." If you were no where around then....as you claim....then who are you to tell members that want to work on her that they can't because of things that you know nothing about. The parts are there....the groundwork has been laid....poop or get off the pot and sell her to someone who will.

steamer69 wrote:

ericofmaine wrote:Given, however, I'm in my 30's, makes it pretty difficult for me to have been around when any of this work was done

How's that? you would have been 17 or 18 when the work was being done....there is no difficulty there at all. I have young guys that volunteer with me who are 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Not difficult at all. And what does that have to do with the fact that you were denying being a trustee. Bad form to say that "I personally could care less if she runs again or ends up as scrap as I have no vested interest." If you were no where around then....as you claim....then who are you to tell members that want to work on her that they can't because of things that you know nothing about. The parts are there....the groundwork has been laid....poop or get off the pot and sell her to someone who will.

Well, let's see, seeing how I was in upstate New York still in high school would have made it quite difficult. Let's see, I've also only been a trustee for the past 3 years (which I haven't denied). I'm only telling these members what the wishes of the board are... I can't help it that I'm the only one who goes on these boards and interacts.

Eric

I don't think anyone is faulting you for interacting. I think the frustration is coming from a perceived inability of a trustee to come to some sort of agreement with the membership, in terms of equipment that is owned by the entire membership....not just the board. If reader and a bunch of his friends want to go work on the 501, placing parts and pieces on it that have all ready been paid for.....what's the issue. That's where my frustration lies....it's there, u have the parts, let the members work on it. Why not?

steamer69 wrote:I don't think anyone is faulting you for interacting. I think the frustration is coming from a perceived inability of a trustee to come to some sort of agreement with the membership, in terms of equipment that is owned by the entire membership....not just the board. If reader and a bunch of his friends want to go work on the 501, placing parts and pieces on it that have all ready been paid for.....what's the issue. That's where my frustration lies....it's there, u have the parts, let the members work on it. Why not?

AHHH!
Steamer, buddy, I think you may have stumbled on an answer of sorts here. It has been stated by Eric that the intention IS to preserve the locomotive in such a way as to make future restoration to steam possible, however long in the future that may be. I believe, also, (I could be wrong,) that it was stated or at least implied that such things as restoring the existing parts to the locomotive are not off the table, nor is finding/building some sort of shelter when funds provide.
So,... I would suggest 1) make all suggestions, inquiries and offers of help in line with this rationale of thinking (as opposed to criticizing the group for it's not running, or for not pushing for it's full restoration,) 2) don't alienate the group or yourself from them by taking up the critical position, (criticism did NOT build Rome, despite what some might say otherwise,) and 3) remember: she may not steam today, she may not steam EVER, but, taking up a constant adversarial position will only serve to insure that she DOESN'T run... ever!
So, I gather from Eric's postings that: 470 wishes to be good stewards of their equipment, including the 501. This is evidenced by the fact that cosmetic preservation and restoration HAS gone forward. These are steps that do, in fact, facilitate a future restoration to operation, not hinder it.
Perhaps seeking ways of obtaining material for constructing a shelter, however temporary, for the 501 might be a good way to go.
I will point out one other aspect of 501 that has been noted in this thread, albeit way WAY back, and that is that despite the plethora of parts already on hand, there is a good deal of welding that needs to be done, and a bit more that was done that needs to be CORRECTED before that machine will hold steam safely. There is the fire-door knuckle, and several staybolts that were removed, as well as the tubes which would all need to be removed and at the very least safe-ended and replaced. That's all before the hydro can be done. There is also the fact that once you start in on a project like this there are ALWAYS things you find that weren't found before or developed over time that need to be addressed. Before such things can be addressed there would have to BE the funds available on-hand for the welding, at the very least.
The days of WD-40 restorations are, sadly, past. Let's not bicker over who did-or-didn't or who should-have-done. Let's try to look at this from a "what does 470 want/plan to do next and how can I help?" position. THAT will get things done much more than tearing into 470 or CSRX for what one perceives are their misdoings.

Cosmo wrote: AHHH!
Steamer, buddy, I think you may have stumbled on an answer of sorts here. It has been stated by Eric that the intention IS to preserve the locomotive in such a way as to make future restoration to steam possible, however long in the future that may be. I believe, also, (I could be wrong,) that it was stated or at least implied that such things as restoring the existing parts to the locomotive are not off the table, nor is finding/building some sort of shelter when funds provide.

Cosmo my friend. Lets look at this for a minute. If the above was true....why are members being told that they can't do anything to the engine? How much would the last bit of stabilization cost? I bet you not as much as Frankinengine. Because I can think of a crap load of shelters that cost tens of thousands of dollars to have volunteers put up....NOT.

Cosmo wrote:she may not steam today, she may not steam EVER

Actions speak louder than words, and the actions sure prove that statement.

Cosmo wrote: "what does 470 want/plan to do next and how can I help?" position. THAT will get things done much more than tearing into 470 or CSRX for what one perceives are their misdoings.

What do they want.....to spend every red cent they have on Frankinengine.
How can I help? They won't let anyone work on 501....so the answer to that question would be a whole lotta nothing. I don't care to work on Frankinengine, just like some people don't care to work on 501. The only difference is that the people who want to work on Frankinengine don't have to argue about it, justify it, and beg to be allowed to volunteer.

It would be a real shame to cut up 1757! How cool would it be to have her car body up on 4268's trucks, painted up and displayed in Bartlett with the 2 snowplows bracketing it!

p42thedowneaster wrote:It would be a real shame to cut up 1757! How cool would it be to have her car body up on 4268's trucks, painted up and displayed in Bartlett with the 2 snowplows bracketing it!

That WOULD look pretty durn kewel.

Not only would it look "pretty durn kewel", it's more money taken away from 501! So I bet you they would do it in a heartbeat!

Id be fine with that display even if it means money from the 501.

Maybe 470 Railroad Club should change their name to something more reflective of their interests/goals. It seems like they don't have much interest in the Maine Central, especially if they're contemplating spending money to stuff-and-mount a New Hampshire Northcoast engine.

Save a MEC Geep? "Nope, we don't have the money."

Save a MEC U-boat? "Nope, we don't have the money. And who gives a crap about a lousy GE anyway?"

Rebuild MEC 501? "Nope, we don't have the money."

Cosmetically restore MEC 470? "Nope, we don't have the money (but we might be convinced to donate a can of paint. Maybe. Probably not.)."

Rebuild a B&M F7? "Sure!"

Cosmetically restore a NHN Geep? "Why not?"


At the very least, a name like The 4266 Railroad Club would seem to be more appropriate. Call a spade a spade. You'd probably get a lot more Massachusetts folks to join, too.

If there was a like button, I would have just hit it.

"Let 470 and 501 rot while we spend tens of thousands of dollars on Frankinengine!" MEC407 you now see what some of us have been saying for a long while.

Does anyone even know what the charter and/or mission statement of the 470 Club reads? Are they obligated to dedicate
funds to any specific project? If not, then they can spend or not spend on anything they want. Brett, are you a member of
470? If you are, then maybe you should run for trustee or president and lkead the club in another direction. It is the
members who elect the trustees, who, in turn direct the activites of the club. Maybe it's time for younger members to get
involved and vote out the old gaurd.

If the memebers keep re-electing the directors, they must be happy with the leadership.

I'm somewhat new to this scene, so forgive my ignorance, but from what I've seen, the 470 Club should be able to do what they want with their equipment...or is the dissention within the ranks of the club?