Ten Future Decisions Septa Should Make

Suburban Station wrote:

R3 Passenger wrote: High level platforms ... have NOTHING to do with the number of passenger boardings.

talk about a headache, while I think SEPTA might believe this insanity, there's absolutely no truth to it. by your logic, 30th st and suburban would not have been high level platforms until the 90's. We know that is not the case and the reason for high level platforms was passenger convenience and speed of boarding. They made the most sense where passenger counts were high. now that we have that out of the way and you have clearly not quashed anything, we can move on.

The Center City platforms are from a different era, and the call was made for HLPs by now defunct companies who had different reasons. I am not talking about 1930, I am talking about 2014. It is irrelevant to this conversation,

R3 Passenger wrote:
Since wheelchairs must have access to all accessible cars available to passengers without disabilities, full length high level platforms are REQUIRED. There is one exception to this that applies only to Langhorne and Woodbourne Stations:

queen lane was recently built with mini-highs

I bet if you did some digging, you could probably find a ruling that allowed SEPTA to do this.

R3 Passenger wrote:
If you disagree with something that is done by a public agency, there is probably a reason why they are doing it.

just because there is a reason doesn't mean there is a good reason. despite your ranting and foaming at the mouth you have not been able to provide a reasonable explanation for not prioritizing based on demand.

Did you stop reading there? See my response above and then finish reading my last post.

moreover, have you bothered to the calculation on what it will cost to provide high levels at every station? they simply can't be justified for stations that don't have a good number of riders. building high levels for small numbers of people while claiming poor on service expansions where larger numbers of people would be served is a a hallmark of SEPTA logic.

Seriously, a cost analysis justification on ridership basis is not the issue here. The Americans with Disabilities Act is what is known as an "Unfunded Mandate." Clearly, this requires equal access for disabled passengers to all vehicles that are accessible by able passengers without consideration of cost. Therefore, high level platforms are mandated for all stations.

Tell you what, here is the full text to 49 CFR Part 37. Read it. If you find something in here to back up your argument against everything I have just stated, I will be more than happy to concede to your arguments.

I have backed up everything I have said here with evidence. I have gone above and beyond what I do as a regular poster for the sake of educating you in this matter. But if you won't listen, that is on you.

Technically, they can have access to all cars of the train, because of the doors between cars. It's not ideal, but it works and could be used as a loophole.

All I asked was for this thread to hit a little reality, stop with the wish lists and space cowboy dreams, the whole High Level platform convo should really be in its own thread now, the original topics has been completely lost, so does anyone have any real life ideas that could actually be met in today's economy?

Limited-Clear wrote:All I asked was for this thread to hit a little reality, stop with the wish lists and space cowboy dreams, the whole High Level platform convo should really be in its own thread now, the original topics has been completely lost, so does anyone have any real life ideas that could actually be met in today's economy?

I sincerely apologize for derailing this topic. I got a little heated over some things I have been noticing around here and need to cool off a little bit.

Let me get back on topic by saying this: The only way to get anything done in this economy is by doing the planning first. Get all your cost analyses done and then proceed to your engineering. You need to get the projects shovel ready first. Funding is the biggest deterrent, but it comes and goes. When it comes, at least you will have a project ready to go. The Wawa extension is one of those. Others would be the various planned station renovations. Basically, anything that is in the "unfunded" section of SEPTA's Capital Plan are the only ideas that will be met in today's economy.

With that, I am going away for a while to go draft an angry letter. R3 Passenger out.

25Hz wrote:Right, so none of you are serious about advocacy? You just want to watch the shiny trains run? Why am I not surprised. I don't know why i even bother posting any type of improvement ideas on here, seems i am the only one that actually cares enough to look like the fool with the crackpot ideas vs sitting back and listing all the reasons why something can't happen, and then wonder why it doesn't vs pushing for it.

The third track between wayne junction and jenkintown is 100% doable., and it would benefit thousands of riders, and probably attract more with express services. But i guess that is too bold and logical of a thing to even hope for. After all, i'm just some delusional foamer, right?

You really have some nerve, especially since two posters provided THE BEST ways to get your concerns heard by SEPTA. Why don't you put your pen to paper and actually go do the dirty work as other posters have over the years?

Tritransit Area wrote:

25Hz wrote:Right, so none of you are serious about advocacy? You just want to watch the shiny trains run? Why am I not surprised. I don't know why i even bother posting any type of improvement ideas on here, seems i am the only one that actually cares enough to look like the fool with the crackpot ideas vs sitting back and listing all the reasons why something can't happen, and then wonder why it doesn't vs pushing for it.

The third track between wayne junction and jenkintown is 100% doable., and it would benefit thousands of riders, and probably attract more with express services. But i guess that is too bold and logical of a thing to even hope for. After all, i'm just some delusional foamer, right?

You really have some nerve, especially since two posters provided THE BEST ways to get your concerns heard by SEPTA. Why don't you put your pen to paper and actually go do the dirty work as other posters have over the years?

I think even the mere thought of calling Clearfield and I not "serious about advocacy" is laughable. We've done more advocacy work than you've foamed about Newtown.

R3 Passenger wrote:The Center City platforms are from a different era, and the call was made for HLPs by now defunct companies who had different reasons. I am not talking about 1930, I am talking about 2014. It is irrelevant to this conversation,

incorrect, it is completely relevant to the conversation.

R3 Passenger wrote:
I bet if you did some digging, you could probably find a ruling that allowed SEPTA to do this.

one would hope so since it would be pretty silly to put that much money into a station that doesn't meet modern requirements but why would that pass but all other stations need complete highs?

R3 Passenger wrote:
If you disagree with something that is done by a public agency, there is probably a reason why they are doing it.

Seriously, a cost analysis justification on ridership basis is not the issue here. The Americans with Disabilities Act is what is known as an "Unfunded Mandate." Clearly, this requires equal access for disabled passengers to all vehicles that are accessible by able passengers without consideration of cost. Therefore, high level platforms are mandated for all stations.

think about what you are saying. a cost analysis is certainly in order, if the stations are not worth the expense close them. I know it's an unfunded mandate from congress but we ARE paying for it and SEPTA is spending our money. there is no reason they should be haphazardly spending money to meet a mandate without a cost analysis nor is there a reason they should not prioritize hlp's based on ridership as nay intelligent organization would do.

R3 Passenger wrote:
I have backed up everything I have said here with evidence. I have gone above and beyond what I do as a regular poster for the sake of educating you in this matter. But if you won't listen, that is on you.

you have done nothing but ramble on about ADA which no one has disputed as well as made baseless claims about ridership not being relevant to prioritization and cost analysis not being relevant to service investments. simply sticking your head in the sand and hiding behind legal documents is not a valid argument. I'm listening to you, you just arent saying anything. how much is septa spending on the platform at shawmont? what about logan? are they ADA compliant?

Malvern Station?

Anything would be better than Link Belt.

Suburban Station: I am taking our discussion to PM.

List of 10 things that will never happen (pay close attention to number 4)
1: West Chester trolleys
2: P&W Strafford branch
3: Short turn Cynwyd line trains
4: Newtown
5: Replace the Silverliner Vs with Silverliner IIs
6: Replace all buses with trolleys
7: Extend the airport line to Paoli
8: Market Frankford line conversion to standard gauge.
9: Extend the Market Frankford line from frankford to West Chester
10: Run paoli trains to harrisburg.

Tritransit Area wrote:

25Hz wrote:Right, so none of you are serious about advocacy? You just want to watch the shiny trains run? Why am I not surprised. I don't know why i even bother posting any type of improvement ideas on here, seems i am the only one that actually cares enough to look like the fool with the crackpot ideas vs sitting back and listing all the reasons why something can't happen, and then wonder why it doesn't vs pushing for it.

The third track between wayne junction and jenkintown is 100% doable., and it would benefit thousands of riders, and probably attract more with express services. But i guess that is too bold and logical of a thing to even hope for. After all, i'm just some delusional foamer, right?

You really have some nerve, especially since two posters provided THE BEST ways to get your concerns heard by SEPTA. Why don't you put your pen to paper and actually go do the dirty work as other posters have over the years?

The best, yet service continues to be modified to focus solely on center city commuters and imaginary hoards of fare jumpers vs a real regional transit system that meets the needs of the areas it serves.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the reason i cant attend these things is due to how flawed the system is? Yes, i really would LOVE to spend 4-6 hours in travel time to attend a 30-60 minute function. This especially if the weather is off or there are delays and i miss the whole thing because there is only hourly service or less. I have some nerve, yea, i have some nerve putting up with this frustration of a transit system without yelling at someone as to why a 20 minute trip by car takes me 2.5 hours ONE WAY only to hear some regurgitated dogmatic nonsense about ridership.

I have so much I want to say, but I'll get banned, so much for getting this thread back on topic!!!!

25Hz wrote:Has it ever occurred to anyone that the reason i cant attend these things is due to how flawed the system is? Yes, i really would LOVE to spend 4-6 hours in travel time to attend a 30-60 minute function. This especially if the weather is off or there are delays and i miss the whole thing because there is only hourly service or less. I have some nerve, yea, i have some nerve putting up with this frustration of a transit system without yelling at someone as to why a 20 minute trip by car takes me 2.5 hours ONE WAY only to hear some regurgitated dogmatic nonsense about ridership.

"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"

jackintosh11 wrote:List of 10 things that will never happen (pay close attention to number 4)
1: West Chester trolleys
2: P&W Strafford branch
3: Short turn Cynwyd line trains
4: Newtown
5: Replace the Silverliner Vs with Silverliner IIs
6: Replace all buses with trolleys
7: Extend the airport line to Paoli
8: Market Frankford line conversion to standard gauge.
9: Extend the Market Frankford line from frankford to West Chester
10: Run paoli trains to harrisburg.

10..is there some reason you have that you would prefer a three hour bathroom-less ride to harrisburg over simply taking the Keystone (also subsidized by state taxpayers)? question for you, do you think it would be possible to have a west chester trolley do the run in 30 minutes with signal priority and perhaps duck unders for key intersections?
my own number 7, extend airport line trains to bethlehem