Southern Tier - why so much upkeep for little traffic?

ok..I just want to ask a few questions..no fantasies of what could happen..this is what IS happening. Someone posted that the NYSW is cutting their road trains down to 2 days a week. That means 4 trains on the tier from Port Jervis to Binghamton..That being said, I was up there a few weeks ago and noticed a maintenance blitz..for what??? 4 trains? Honestly..what a waste of money.
Now..If you read between the lines the NYSW may be slowly eliminating the 99/100s completely..since they can interchange in Croxton/North Bergen. So NS will have a rebuilt line by the time the lease expires and the NYSW could have no through trains at all...Is it just me who sees this as a strange situation??
Also..I have heard rumblings about an ethanol plant going in Honesdale..can anyone confirm or deny that?

I'm waiting patientlly for "SecacusJunction" to chime in on the matter!!!

Terms of the lease with NS require the track be maintained and brought up to 40 mph standards by the time the lease ends.

Seriously doubt the NYS&W is using their own money to maintain the line.

And just because there is a business downturn right now, it doesn't mean it couldn't pick back up in a month or two (or 6). The time to maintain the track is when less trains are running. It reduces delays and keeps you in good shape for the business upturns.

Not sure what you mean by "maintenace blitz", northjerseyrailbuff, but there is an ongoing program to replace bridges across Robinson St., Binghamton which has resulted in changes in track configurations and usage in Binghamton. There is a great deal of traffic on the ST line west of, the CP (EL) line east (south) and the CP line (DH)north (east) along with whatever NYSW has east and north. There could be over 24 trains a day...and several more moves...in Binghamton not counting NYSW traffic.

I've been ranting about this for quite a long time now!

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 28&t=47813

It doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me either. It wouldnt surprise me to see a 40mph line with one or two locals per week on it for a time.

What I eventually think will happen is in here on the third page and it seems to be coming true.


http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... a&start=30


The Ethanol in Honesdale seems to be a go and may eventually pull the Tier back from the scrap heep. The more online traffic they can pull off east of Binghamton is better and more attractive to anyone who may want to run service here. From what I hear may happen in the shipping industry in the next 3 years, the railroads may need all of the track they can get. Though that doesnt necessarily mean they will run through trains here.

Garbage will probably be shipped out on 33K

Amazingly, SJ, what you wrote back in April might have come true!! I saw 33K last week and he had a good amount of C&D cars stuffed to the gills! Perhaps, this was traffic formally on the SU-99??

Maybe some watchdog from NS saw what you posted in here and took it upon your suggestion!!!

NS has there own C&D facility in Newark. They probably get alot more trucks coming to them from taht general area compared to the area surrounding North Bergen. Plus if NYSW was sending there stuff over NS they'de be loosing money and not making money if they ship it themselves. As for the interchanging in north bergen. NS has been dropping off alot of cars for NYSW not the other way around.

Steve F45 wrote:NS has there own C&D facility in Newark. They probably get alot more trucks coming to them from taht general area compared to the area surrounding North Bergen. Plus if NYSW was sending there stuff over NS they'de be loosing money and not making money if they ship it themselves. As for the interchanging in north bergen. NS has been dropping off alot of cars for NYSW not the other way around.

Steve,

What exactly leads you to believe that NS is dropping off a lot of cars for NYSW??? Where are all these cars going????? If that it is the case then you would think traffic would be up on the NYSW, no??

You also said on another list that one of the North Bergen(82nd st?) C&D facilities seemed to be getting busy again.... If all this is true, then why would NYSW only run 2 SU-99's a week, down from 5-6 a week only 2 years ago!!!

It seems to me that NYSW is focusing more on the local traffic, and not as much on road traffic.

Beside for the C&D cars, what else do they need to haul North South. All of the local stuff can be picked up locally, ie Syracuse, Binghamton, North Bergen, etc

I dont doubt that NS is dropping off cars for NYSW. Thats probably in place of the SU100 bringing cars to NJ. I'm sure, given the opportunity, that the NYSW would of course, choose to move their own traffic, but the "parentals" can pull it off at any time since they are pretty much running the show. NYSW is working for NS and CSX and it seems as though the larger railroads figured out they can make more money moving this stuff on their own rails. Why pay the NYSW to do it when they have the capacity and power to move it themselves? Like I said, look for the SU99 and SU100 to be gone altogether in the not too distant future. Given everything we know, I'd say the railroad will probably outlive 2008 but 2009 might be a different story.

blockline4180 wrote:

Steve F45 wrote:NS has there own C&D facility in Newark. They probably get alot more trucks coming to them from taht general area compared to the area surrounding North Bergen. Plus if NYSW was sending there stuff over NS they'de be loosing money and not making money if they ship it themselves. As for the interchanging in north bergen. NS has been dropping off alot of cars for NYSW not the other way around.

Steve,

What exactly leads you to believe that NS is dropping off a lot of cars for NYSW??? Where are all these cars going????? If that it is the case then you would think traffic would be up on the NYSW, no??

You also said on another list that one of the North Bergen(82nd st?) C&D facilities seemed to be getting busy again.... If all this is true, then why would NYSW only run 2 SU-99's a week, down from 5-6 a week only 2 years ago!!!

one member pointed out that NS dropped off alot of autoracks and centerbeams for the 2 facilities down at the end of the NB industrial. Even 1 employee said just because you dont see alot of road freight now doesn't mean they aren't do anything locally. To me it seems since nysw is leasing ns/csx gp38's that they can handle more of the local work load then the old gp18's and 20's could. Alot of the local work was attached ot the 99's and 100's and they would be switching out sparta, etc.

As for the C&D yes 83rd street has been stuffed lately, paterson plank road seems to be doing ok. There was that third one they had somewhere in the 40's that was closed. But that is where they are now building that mega c&d facility that conforms to all the requests from the state/town and hackensack riverkeeper to make it as safe as possible. And as I said since these 2 facilites are getting busier, there has been ALOT more C&D traffic going west over the last 8 weeks or so.

I dont doubt that NS is dropping off cars for NYSW. Thats probably in place of the SU100 bringing cars to NJ. I'm sure, given the opportunity, that the NYSW would of course, choose to move their own traffic, but the "parentals" can pull it off at any time since they are pretty much running the show. NYSW is working for NS and CSX and it seems as though the larger railroads figured out they can make more money moving this stuff on their own rails. Why pay the NYSW to do it when they have the capacity and power to move it themselves? Like I said, look for the SU99 and SU100 to be gone altogether in the not too distant future. Given everything we know, I'd say the railroad will probably outlive 2008 but 2009 might be a different story.

SJ, the SU-100's have been bring cars into NJ. There not just light engine moves. And what basis do you have to say that NS/CSX are the mother and father of NYSW? When has NS/CSX had NYSW move stuff for them except for detours in the past? I can't believe it would take them that long to say "hey we can make money shipping this stuff ourselves!" And for any control to be taken over by ns/csx, there has to be PAPERWORK AND FILINGS you don't just takeover another railroad and thats it. If thats the case, i'll fly down to Jacksonville and take over CSX myself.

And as I said since these 2 facilites are getting busier, there has been ALOT more C&D traffic going west over the last 8 weeks or so.

Okay, we will try this again!!!! If this is the case, then why did NYSW just cut the SU-99 from 3 days of the week down to 2???? If there really was a A LOT more C&D traffic going west over the last 8 weeks then you would think the train would grow, not remain stable or shrink. From my observations, they haven't really grown in the past 8 weeks!!

NS/CSX already own the NYSW on paper..this was done awhile back..it explains the NS/CSX local power..

Steve F45 wrote:And what basis do you have to say that NS/CSX are the mother and father of NYSW?

Steve, this is actually fairly well documented... it was more or less fallout from the Conrail split. I forget the exact arrangement, but more or less CSX and NS both have controlling interests in the NYSW, more so with the passing of Walter Rich.

I think we're starting to wander away from the original topic, which was why there's so much ongoing maintenance work on the Souther Tier (I assume between Bingo and Port) for what appears to be little traffic?

-otto-

The answer to the question is simple. It is because NYSW made that deal with NS to bring the line to 40mph by January 1. Why this is in the lease and why the NYSW would agree to it is not known. I wonder if they werent threatening to dissolve the NYSW back in 2004 and WR made this deal with NS to keep the company afloat for a while. The lease agreement seems to have absolutely no benefit for the NYSW.