Something must be wrong - they're doing smart things!!!

Off-peak round trip tickets are not valid on this train. Please check your ticket. If your ticket has RTX or ORT on it, it is an off-peak ticket, not valid for rush hour travel. There will be an additional charge added to the cost of your ticket. (x3)"

Again, I have tried this approach as well on the Raritan Valley Line, to no avail. In fact, I have had had a few regular commuters complain both to me and my conductor that they were tired of my "elaborate" announcements, and asked if it was "really necessary?". We told them yes, that every single night we get new and/ or stupid riders who need to be told the procedure. However, even after repeated announcements night after night I found that the idiots did not listen regardless. I would say, "Didn't you just hear the 3 announcements pertaining to this ticket you just handed me?", and they would still not cooperate. Or I would have to spend the whole time from Newark to Union holding "Step-up 101 classes", and miss a whole carload of others in the process. It's not worth it.

mcmannors wrote: It's not worth it.

Sounds like you're one of those infamous "other guys". You know, "The 'other guy' never charges me extra for buying my ticket on the train". Or, "the 'other guy' never steps up my ticket".

Give the passenger a revenue class if necessary and put in a "fail to meet" for the remainder.

And don't set up the next guy for a dispute.

An off-peak oneway doesn't do away with step-up arguments. If a rider feels they can talk their way out of an ORT step-up, they will feel the same way about a oneway step-up.

The major impediment to an off-peak oneway is financial. Something like 30-40% of NJT off-peak rail trips are made using oneway tickets - full fare oneway tickets. Instituting a discount off-peak oneway immediately gives these riders the fare break as well, one they are demonstrating they don't need to ride, since they are riding now without it.

Sounds like you're one of those infamous "other guys". You know, "The 'other guy' never charges me extra for buying my ticket on the train". Or, "the 'other guy' never steps up my ticket".

That could be, but how about this: 99% of the off peak tickets I get are from people connecting from trains out of New York. And they aren't stepped up out of New York. And it's not as if they don't collect out of New York, because the tickets are punched "out" most of the time. Unless all of these people were sitting at the bar downstairs for a couple of hours, I assume they came out of New York on a peak train. So, as you can see, the "other guy" phoenomena is a never-ending vicious cycle!

mcmannors wrote: So, as you can see, the "other guy" phoenomena is a never-ending vicious cycle!

I'm all too familiar with the "other guy" phenomenom. Keep up your end of the deal, like I do, and maybe we can eliminate this scourge!!

The thing that I dislike is that apparently any ticket at all coming through SEC is now a peak ticket during rush hour. A trip from NB to Rutherford at rush is now peak, whereas even taking the train to Nwk (also a large station) was not.

Any trip through SEC during peak times requires a one way ticket. Same at Newark too. The rule states "To or through a major terminal or transfer point" requires a one way ticket during peak times. Any RTX's, or ORT's as they are now called, would have to be stepped up. A trip from NB to NWK during evening rush, an RTX would be fine, but a trip from NB to Glen Rock at the same time, you would need a one way, because you are going onto a rush hour train at SEC on the Main/Bergen lines, where RTX's aren't permitted.

As a side note, any NJT trainmen who made their way into NYP lately notice the "Memorandum" by Kevin O'conner, posted on a few walls in the trainmasters lounge and the ticket receivers??? Anyone read item number 1? I haven't heard anything released about that yet.....that should be interesting and a lot of fun

I am convinced that NJ Transit riders do not read and do not hear. I have ridden both NJ Transit and LIRR, and still consistently ride NJT though I now live on Long Island. With my LIRR rides, on peak trains, almost everyone has a monthly or the correct ticket (peak). The 1% that do not are quietly stepped up, and manage to get off at their correct stop. I rode NJ Transit for an entire year and every night I heard heated discussions between the conductor and passengers over why they were being "stepped up" and that it made "no sense". This was after sitting comfortably in my seat of a Trenton Express (Newark then NB then all local stops to Trenton) and having atleast a dozen people per night run up and yell in the door "is this the train to Metropark?" as if it was not outlined on the board next to the stairwell down to track level that it is NOT going to metropark. NJ Transit needs to hold Commuter 101 classes for all newbies, because they annoy the bejeezus out of the regulars.

But I digress.

But I digress.

No, you were right on topic. I have mentioned elsewhere on this board (and/or other boards as well) that NJ Transit riders are morons when compared to riders of other agencies. And it's not just "newbies", either. I had this same idiot ask me night after night (1:00 in the morning, not the rush hour) if the train stopped at Garwood. Also, I have this same woman night after night ask me where to exit the train for High Bridge.

There must be something in the air west of the Hudson River!

I never see any problems on Bergen or PJ trains, but I do on trains between NYP and SEC, particularly Coast Line trains. Some of it is language problems, some may be deep ignorance, including tuning out on the conductor's announcements. I'm also convinced sometimes it is a hustle. For instance, let's say someone presents a RTX ticket on a peak train. The TC says, Pay the Step-up Charge. Passenger says she doesn't have the money. What next? Would anyone throw her off the train? My guess is, the TC would just accept her RTX. (If she actually is broke you wouldn't want to throw her off the train. If she's hustling you, how can you be sure? I suspect management wouldn't want to hear about a rush hour train delayed on the NEC while a deadbeat passenger was removed...)

Wow, JoeG, you hit the nail, RIGHT ON THE HEAD!!!!

JoeG wrote:I suspect management wouldn't want to hear about a rush hour train delayed on the NEC while a deadbeat passenger was removed...)

Why not? It is posted in black & white in every train that passengers who obstruct proper fare collection will be removed at the next station stop. I've been on trains that had NJ Transit cops meet fare deadbeats at Elizabeth. Sure, it sucks, but it is worth 5 minutes of my evening trip home to see some smarmy suit get the bracelets put on him because he doesn't want to pay $2.75, or how English skills turn on real fast when the train stops at Newark Airport to drop off a "no understand"-er.

I go into a big argument on the nj.com forum saying this but I will say it again here because I think it is true and correct:

I would be the first person on my cell phone complaining to customer service if I became aware that a train crew member was holding up a train due to a fare dispute with another passenger. No fare dispute is important enough to justify holding up me and hundreds of other people.

When the word gets out that one can get away without paying the proper fare, many will take advantage of that. Need to have some enforcement or else.

Mark Schweber wrote:I go into a big argument on the nj.com forum saying this but I will say it again here because I think it is true and correct:

I would be the first person on my cell phone complaining to customer service if I became aware that a train crew member was holding up a train due to a fare dispute with another passenger. No fare dispute is important enough to justify holding up me and hundreds of other people.

As long as those lovely black and white posters alluded to earlier are in effect, you're wasting your minutes. It's the train crews' jobs to enforce the revenue policy, among others.

I've delayed a few trains in my day for this reason. I don't enjoy calling the police for revenue but I don't enjoy being lied to a hundred times a day either. But when you challenge me, on my train, and you're 100% wrong to boot, you've gotta go.