Secaucus Jct-Platforms lengthening

SecaucusJunction wrote:According to their online schedule, trains should have operated all the way to Hoboken starting at 11:30pm. Maybe NJT changed their schedules without telling anyone?

Not 100% sure, but I think the first train all the way through to Hoboken departed the Meadowlands around 11:37pm. It also says on the online schedule that after the event ends, trains may be held to depart as they are full, or schedules may be moved up if the event ends early. If necessary, additional service may operate after 12:40 a.m.

Hawaiitiki wrote: Somewhere in the original Meadowlands thread, it was mentioned that there was indeed a reduction in equipment and service to Hoboken directly related to Sandy. It seems like simply adding a set or two to the 8 running last night, which I gotta imagine were available at midnight on a Sunday, would have provided the same effect as just turning everything at SEC. I live in Hoboken, large in a part to being able to live a car-free lifestyle, and being able to convienently attend events at the Meadowslands was a pretty big draw. My issue is just that I can specifically remember an NJT announcement that specifically detailed trains every 15 min between Hoboken and the Meadowlands before and after the events. I get that demand does not warrant THAT kind of service, but not running a Hoboken train until 90 min after an event is not really the way to go if your trying to get people off the road from Hoboken, Weehawken, Jersey City, or Lower Manhattan.

Yes directly after Sandy, there were only 5 sets used in Meadowlands service for the few football games left. However, the same schedule was kept, even with only the 5 sets because more trains were turned back at Secaucus. Its not that easy just add a set or two as everything is going on. You'd be surprised, even at Midnight on a Sunday, there are just not sets laying around doing nothing. Also, how are you going to crew it? Call in a crew at 10:00pm and only work till 1:00am the latest? It is a very complex operation, with sets of equipment being brought to Hoboken from various locations over the weekend that have to get back and ready for Monday morning's rush hour. I understand it is frustrating that you had to wait for 90 minutes for a Hoboken train with about 100 people, but also in that 90 minutes, about 10,000 people got off in Secaucus and went to other places besides Hoboken. The service is indeed demand driven. If you are going to use the service from Hoboken, get used to that. I'd imagine it will be the same way for this years NFL pre and regular season games along with the Super Bowl. If you'd like to know anything else, send me a PM. I'd be happy to try to explain as much as I know.

This may be a very dumb question, but does NJT run any extra trains on their normal lines for something like this? I know service starts to get very sparse around that time of night to try to get home.

SecaucusJunction wrote:This may be a very dumb question, but does NJT run any extra trains on their normal lines for something like this? I know service starts to get very sparse around that time of night to try to get home.

Yes sometimes depending on the event. Last night there was an extra NY-SEC shuttle train in the gap between 10:40ish and 11:30ish. I think for the U2 concerts a few years ago, extra trains were added on the NEC and NJCL.

srock1028 wrote:

SecaucusJunction wrote:According to their online schedule, trains should have operated all the way to Hoboken starting at 11:30pm. Maybe NJT changed their schedules without telling anyone?

Not 100% sure, but I think the first train all the way through to Hoboken departed the Meadowlands around 11:37pm. It also says on the online schedule that after the event ends, trains may be held to depart as they are full, or schedules may be moved up if the event ends early. If necessary, additional service may operate after 12:40 a.m.

Thank you for all your insight srock. I can concur that the first train to Hoboken did indeed depart the Meadowlands around 11:37pm(I took one that left the Meadowlands at 11pm). Its just that it took 15ish min to get to Secaucus, then held in Secaucus for about 25min, then took the normal 10ish min to Hoboken. The event ended at 11pm, so my calculation puts that train in Hoboken around 12:40 which seems about right. As you noted, they likely were holding the train for it to be sufficiently full. Guess I shoulda moved to the city...

SecaucusJunction wrote:This may be a very dumb question, but does NJT run any extra trains on their normal lines for something like this? I know service starts to get very sparse around that time of night to try to get home.

Sometimes. When Springsteen did a three night run in September, he went to almost 2AM the final night, and an extra train was run to both Trenton & Long Branch.

Hawaiitiki wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:

Hawaiitiki wrote:The EMU problem would also solve the "losing a car length" for the locomotive problem.

Putting the locomotive on the other end of the train is lots cheaper - doesn't need civil engineering or a construction budget - and could be done tommorrow.

Unless you want to choke out people in Hoboken terminal with Diesel Exhaust. The only way that would be a possibility would be running all trains originating in Hoboken with Dual-Modes and then switching modes somewhere within the Hoboken yard limits, which requires the train to stop which would add unneccesary time.

So the extra car lenght the running with the locomotive on the East End isn't worth it?

Do the 5 percent of trains that do run with the diesel on the east end choke people out? They can haul in a train with an ALP-45 and when it stops in Hoboken switch over to electric. A few minutes before they are ready to leave, switch back to diesel. Not an ideal solution but one they could use tomorrow if they wanted to.

Meh, I've been there a few times with a diesel east ended, it's not that bad. It's the noise that I think would bother the most people...

Adirondacker wrote:

Hawaiitiki wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:

Hawaiitiki wrote:The EMU problem would also solve the "losing a car length" for the locomotive problem.

Putting the locomotive on the other end of the train is lots cheaper - doesn't need civil engineering or a construction budget - and could be done tommorrow.

Unless you want to choke out people in Hoboken terminal with Diesel Exhaust. The only way that would be a possibility would be running all trains originating in Hoboken with Dual-Modes and then switching modes somewhere within the Hoboken yard limits, which requires the train to stop which would add unneccesary time.

So the extra car lenght the running with the locomotive on the East End isn't worth it?

Do the 5 percent of trains that do run with the diesel on the east end choke people out? They can haul in a train with an ALP-45 and when it stops in Hoboken switch over to electric. A few minutes before they are ready to leave, switch back to diesel. Not an ideal solution but one they could use tomorrow if they wanted to.

Its not a choking problem, but at the same time, its not very pleasant being inundated with diesel exhaust. Not to mention the HEP generators on the Geeps are very loud, the PL42s (cant believe im saying this) are tolerably noisy, but at the same time, not everyone likes the smell of diesel,many people consider diesel to be smelly and noisy, and as such NJT likes their diesels on the west end of their trains. NJT has to consider the comfort of all passengers when running trains, not just us railfans. It is much easier for NJT to just keep all trains (45s regardless) with diesels with their locos on the west end so that the 45s can switch off with the Geeps and 42s. However, the locomotive on the east end for the superbowl can easily be done... just steal a NYP set from a 46, which the 45s can easily handle, then you can counter the headache of having the trainset facing the wrong way for hoboken service by simply giving it back to an available 46 that might be spending time in the Hoboken area. Remember, over 20 of the 45s are still out of commission, we have no real idea how NJT intends to mix and match these units with various services for real until NJT gets the 21 out of service back in service.

The exhaust from the prime mover shoots up through the gap in the canopy, only a slight waft makes it down to people height, and most of that is from the HEP generator. The noise on the other hand, depending on if the radiator fan is running or not, can be a bit much in the enclosed space.

But, as someone who does not smoke and cycles on roads in traffic, i can say that petroleum based diesel exhaust of any amount can be very unpleasant and has an immediate effect on how much oxygen i can take in for a few moments sapping my energy and sometimes giving me a headache if its for a long stretch. I've been next to a bio-diesel truck, and the effect was negligible. Smelled like french fries, made me hungry.

beanbag wrote:Remember, over 20 of the 45s are still out of commission, we have no real idea how NJT intends to mix and match these units with various services for real until NJT gets the 21 out of service back in service.

I suspect that most if not all of them will be back in service by next year.

Adirondacker wrote:

beanbag wrote:Remember, over 20 of the 45s are still out of commission, we have no real idea how NJT intends to mix and match these units with various services for real until NJT gets the 21 out of service back in service.

I suspect that most if not all of them will be back in service by next year.

With the other locos, they have been around a while, the geeps have common parts widely available, but the 45's have no counterpart, and as i think JT pointed out, the parts got flooded out too, so they not only have to come up with a repair schedule to get the damaged locos back up and good to go, but they have to assess which routine to put each unit through, some may need more parts & cleaning than others, and they gotta have all the parts on hand to do any of that, so it could be a few months. Unless it has some real problem i sense that we should see them back by the end of the summer. NJT has worked miracles since sandy, i don't doubt their ability to get this checked off the list sooner vs later.

25Hz wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:

beanbag wrote:Remember, over 20 of the 45s are still out of commission, we have no real idea how NJT intends to mix and match these units with various services for real until NJT gets the 21 out of service back in service.

I suspect that most if not all of them will be back in service by next year.

With the other locos, they have been around a while, the geeps have common parts widely available, but the 45's have no counterpart, and as i think JT pointed out, the parts got flooded out too, so they not only have to come up with a repair schedule to get the damaged locos back up and good to go, but they have to assess which routine to put each unit through, some may need more parts & cleaning than others, and they gotta have all the parts on hand to do any of that, so it could be a few months. Unless it has some real problem i sense that we should see them back by the end of the summer. NJT has worked miracles since sandy, i don't doubt their ability to get this checked off the list sooner vs later.

I do also remember JT saying that one of NJTs goals with the 45 was to have as many parts in common with the 46 and 46A as possible, that could be a factor too.. Who knows, I did prepare a list in the Hurricane Sandy thread of all the active and inactive dual modes, so as summer rolls around we can keep an eye out for them. No question though the 45s will likely be bringing up the rear in terms of locomotive repairs.

Sirsonic wrote:25kV is actually 27.5kV (55kV split) and locomotives must be able to operate at a voltage +/- 10% of that.

Makes sense. That is typical of electric utility operating practices as well, for example, the nominal 500kV transmission lines such as those in New Jersey are operated at closer to 550kV. All things being equal, it is better to be closer to 550 than the 475kV lower limit where load dump is triggered. The idea is to minimize risk of voltage collapse and resultant blackout; it is better to be at the high end of the limits for reliability.

25Hz wrote:Meh, I've been there a few times with a diesel east ended, it's not that bad. It's the noise that I think would bother the most people...

In the last couple of years before the Aldene plan, I when in high school / college would go the CNJ terminal from time to time for railfanning, and the arriving trains were diesel to the east. I never noticed an issue with the fumes, and of course smoke from steam engines would have had the same issue. The diesels did not have HEP so noise was that of idle level.