Retirement of the GP-38's.

In light of the fact that LIRR has kept most of their MP-15's, I'm wondering: Why did they get rid of all of the GP-38's? Even though NYA handles freight and the new locomotives handle the diesel passanger trains, since there is still a need for the older power, it occurs to me that they might sometimes require something with more than 1500hp.

Well, the MP15s are pretty strong, so I'm sure that they can handle almost any job that LIRR throws at them, however, if they do need a GP38, I'm sure that they can simply ask to borrow one from NYA for a short period of time.

The EMD MP15AC is a 1,500 kW (2,012 hp and The EMD GP38 is a 1,490 kw (2,000 hp )
as you can see the MP15 is actually more powerfull by a slight bit.

DutchRailnut wrote:The EMD MP15AC is a 1,500 kW (2,012 hp and The EMD GP38 is a 1,490 kw (2,000 hp )
as you can see the MP15 is actually more powerfull by a slight bit.

MP15 is 1500hp, not KW.

you are correct, Faux pax in wikipedia.

1,500 hp (1,120 kW)

The GP38s (except for the 4 that are being used by NYAR) were traded in to EMD when the new engines were bought to keep the initial cost of the package down. EMD then subsequently had the fleet rebuilt and placed into lease service.

When built, the LIRR GP38s were configured for passenger service, with higher geared traction motors. The MP15AC's when ordered were built for dual service for both passenger and freight with a lower gear ratio. These engines made better sense to keep anyway as their days to be used on passenger trains were over. Don't let their smaller size and lower horsepower fool you...an MP15AC can pull a freight or work train just fine.

Thanks for the feedback, and the reminder of where most of the GP's went. I looked up the spec's on the two locootive models in question and saw that the MP15 actually produces more TE than the GP38 at start up, and is rated at about 7/8 of the GP's continuous TE even though it only generates 3/4 the hp.

My point is that I see the basis for saying that the MP's actually pull well. My question was rooted in reading such things as the MP's struggling with the circus train.

The Circus train Handoff at Harold is a bit of a pain due most of the train is on a upgrade from NY Penn.
You are starting the pull eastward up the hill to Woodside,then somewhat downgrade to Jamaica.
Remember you're pulling a 61 car train upgrade.

When they got the GP-38s, they shoulda gotten maybe four GP-40s for the PJ branch and the Cannonball. Like in the F-M era when they got four CPA-24s for their heaviest trains and steepest grades. The Jersey Central's GP-40Ps could take off like a rocket.

One of the reasons they got the GP38's is they were part of a locomotive order for Canadian National who backed out of the deal. So, since they got a better price on them, they took what they could get.

GP-40s would have been horrible in LIRR commuter service.

Paul wrote:GP-40s would have been horrible in LIRR commuter service.

Paul: Would that due to the gear ratio (acceleration capability? - please correct me) that would not be useful for start/stop passenger ops with short distance between stations? Why not GP10s or 20s: too old/parts? Thank you.

Most of the Alcos and the remaining FM's were worn out from years of commuter service,FM had gone belly up and Alco was not far behind.
The leased GP-7's were not setup for passenger work but were not remarkable as well.
Going to EMD for Almost an entire new fleet was a "statement" by the MTA at that time.
This was around the time the 645 Prime Mover and the Dash-2 series was introduced to the Industry.

jayrmli wrote:The GP38s (except for the 4 that are being used by NYAR) were traded in to EMD when the new engines were bought to keep the initial cost of the package down. EMD then subsequently had the fleet rebuilt and placed into lease service.

When built, the LIRR GP38s were configured for passenger service, with higher geared traction motors. The MP15AC's when ordered were built for dual service for both passenger and freight with a lower gear ratio. These engines made better sense to keep anyway as their days to be used on passenger trains were over. Don't let their smaller size and lower horsepower fool you...an MP15AC can pull a freight or work train just fine.

Greetings,
Just a small correction to the gearing, GP's and MP's were the same: 59:18, SW's 62:15.
KRO52

The NYA's fleet have been re geared to 62:15 and the LIRR's remaining MPs are still the higher speed gear ratio.

My feelings about the GP40 being a poor choice for LIRR is based on the long idling times, additional fuel consumption (you would be surprised how much difference between the E engine and the E3), that stupid turbo clutch. The 38s that LIRR got served very well. I am curious how the 710 has held up over the years in LIRR service.