Red Line Collision between Ft Totten and Takoma on (6/22/09)

Some other, WMATA and non-WMATA options not mentioned above for people living in Silver Spring who have been impacted (like me) include the following:

*Metrobus 70/71/79 (Silver Spring - Petworth/Shaw-Howard U/Mount Vernon Square/Gallery Place/Archives-Navy Memorial stations, all Green Line)
*Metrobus S2/S4/S9 (Silver Spring - Columbia Heights station, Green Line)
*Metrobus F4 (Silver Spring - Prince George's Plaza, Green Line station, New Carrollton, Orange Line and MARC Penn Line station, and Riverdale, MARC Camden Line station)
*Metrobus F6 (Silver Spring - West Hyattsville/Prince George's Plaza stations, Green Line, College Park station, Green Line and MARC Camden Line station & New Carrollton, Orange Line and MARC Penn Line station)
*Metrobus J4 (Silver Spring - Bethesda station, Red Line, and College Park station, Green Line and MARC Camden Line)
*Ride On bus 1/11 (Silver Spring - Friendship Heights station, Red Line)
*Ride On bus 5 (Silver Spring - White Flint/Twinbrook stations, both Red Line)
*MTA Commuter buses 915 & 929 (Silver Spring - downtown Washington DC, various locations)

In the last case, I'm unsure if they'd let people in Silver Spring board the bus in the morning; it is geared for commuters in Columbia, Burtonsville, and other locations near US 29 outside of WMATA/Ride On bus territory, not for Silver Spring commuters.

There has been no other information that has come out tonight at this point. However, looking at nbcwashington.com, there was some archived video that was posted on the site of the January 1982 Federal Triangle accident. Here is the link: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... on_DC.html

wusa.com and wjla.com are now both reporting nine fatalities as of midnight.

CHIP72 wrote:Yes, the MARC Brunswick Line trains use the same CSX line that the Amtrak Capitol Limited uses. Interestingly, based on the Capitol Limited's schedule, it may not be impacted by this incident at all (Monday WB train I'm guessing got through before the incident, and the Tuesday EB train may get to the DC area after the line is reopened).

If it is anywhere on time it would pass through between 12:15pm (Rockville) and 1:15pm (Union Station). There is a picture at the nbcwashington.com link above of a MARC train passing the site, so one rail is clear enough but I certainly wouldn't want passengers going past the site unless the worst cars are gone. They may be able to get the cars away by noon.

This accident, based on the media reports I've been hearing, definitely wasn't simple. The trailing train was clearly going way, way too fast when it rear-ended the train stopped on the tracks in front of it.

It looks like there is a curve in the line that the rear train rounded before finding the stopped train. The cabs look high enough that the driver should have been able to see over the fence around the curve. There was certainly some speed involved. I'm surprised that there were any survivors in the front car. (One survivor who was interviewed on WUSA said he was standing waiting to get off at Fort Totten at the time of impact when he was lifted into the air and after impact looked down to see the other train. If true he is probably one of the luckiest people alive ... especially since he was a walking wounded and not taken to the hospital.)

I meant no disrespect with the word "simple" but so many of these events across the US have been caused by simple stuff. In a couple of days we'll have a better idea what caused this one (now that the facts are getting sorted out).

12:49am- wjla.com: As in 1 of the prior posts, the fatality count is now at 9 as of 11:30pm. Also announced is that crews will remain overnight with cutting tools and the jaws of life to separate the cars involved. The NTSB which is now on the scene is investigating, led by Debbie Hersman who led the investigation into the Maryland State Police helicopter crash recently. She is quoted as saying that this is a scene of devestation. She also went on record as saying "significant survival space was compromised in the train cars."

12:55am- WUSA: WUSA also is reporting 9 dead and the revised injury count is at 67. 6 of those people have sustained life-threatening injuries, 14 have moderate injuries, and more than 50 have minor injuries. Also being reported is 2 firefighters have now sustained minor injuries.

Commuter train services are also going to have some delays tomorrow. MARC trains are not scheduled to run on the Brunswick Line on Tuesday.

Preliminary areas of the investigation will focus on the ATC/ATS/communication systems, operator error, track conditions, and the train cars themselves.

Preliminary areas of the investigation will focus on the ATC/ATS/communication systems, operator error, track conditions, and the train cars themselves.

Looks like the signaling system and possible operator error will be the focus:

Experts familiar with Metro's operations focused last night on a failure of the signal system and operator error as likely causes of yesterday's fatal Red Line crash.

During the past decade, Metro has struggled with troublesome communications relays. The agency tore out all 20,000 trackside relays in 1999 after discovering that a small portion designed to last 70 years were failing after 25. They sent erroneous instructions to trains on several occasions. One train was told to travel 45 mph on a stretch of track with a 15-mph speed limit; another was directed to travel at zero mph when it should have been ordered to move at 15 mph.

The manufacturer, Alstom Signaling, agreed to replace the relays. The company could not be reached for comment last night.

Alstom may be getting some heat from the Feds over this.

source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

Does anyone know if at the time of the accident the trains were being controlled by the operator or by a ATO/ATC system? Being from New England I am most familiar with the MBTA, and our operations and equipment here.I have ridden the Metro a few time before. If I recall the trains are occupied by a operator, but that person just opens and closes the door to the train and the operation is handled by the ATO/ATC?

This is slightly O/T but does anyone know how long it takes for the NTSB to release its public report for accidents when their is a fatality. I am still waiting for the report from the MBTA Green Line D-Riverside line crash on 5/28/08.

Thank You

GP40MC 1116 wrote:If I recall the trains are occupied by a operator, but that person just opens and closes the door to the train....

I don't think they even do that. The computers handle everything.

It might not be common, but I've been on Metrorail trains that did not stop at the right spot on the platform. Usually less than a car length but the computer won't open up. Then the operator has to radio in for permission to overrride.

They usually announce it over the intercom and, if you're in the head car, you can hear the operator on the radio.

Btw I'm saying a silent prayer for all those involved. Must be horrible.

Wow, really? All to save money I guess. So what do the engineers / conductors even do?

justalurker66 wrote:

CHIP72 wrote:Yes, the MARC Brunswick Line trains use the same CSX line that the Amtrak Capitol Limited uses. Interestingly, based on the Capitol Limited's schedule, it may not be impacted by this incident at all (Monday WB train I'm guessing got through before the incident, and the Tuesday EB train may get to the DC area after the line is reopened).

If it is anywhere on time it would pass through between 12:15pm (Rockville) and 1:15pm (Union Station). There is a picture at the nbcwashington.com link above of a MARC train passing the site, so one rail is clear enough but I certainly wouldn't want passengers going past the site unless the worst cars are gone. They may be able to get the cars away by noon.

Photo shows a crane on the CSX track being used to assist in the investigation. Several CSX high-rail pieces have come and gone over both lines this morning, so it doesn't look like CSX will be open anytime soon. MARC has canceled the entire day on this line.

Bob

bbunge wrote:Photo shows a crane on the CSX track being used to assist in the investigation. Several CSX high-rail pieces have come and gone over both lines this morning, so it doesn't look like CSX will be open anytime soon. MARC has canceled the entire day on this line.

The MARC train shown passing last night was on the opposite track (the other side at the accident scene). Two tracks over from the crashed trains, not immediately next to the crashed trains like the crane. (The photo is currently # 21 in the slideshow at http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... ash__.html as linked above).

When I'm working in Washington, I ride the Red Line between Forest Glen and Gallery Place, so I would have been on a train around the time of the accident. However, I'm at home for a couple of weeks healing from some minor surgery. It does make one think...

So I have some thoughts about the accident. First and most strikingly, in both this accident and the roll-back accident at Woodley Park, look at how one train overrode the other! The anticlimbers were completely ineffective, and apparently so were the collision posts. Rapid transit cars, of course, do not have to meet FRA crashworthiness standards. I expect that may change in the wake of these accidents.

Second, both Metro and BART use similar ATO systems. The central control computer can tell the trains how fast to operate, but in addition there is wayside equipment that sets the maximum speed in each block. This speed cannot be overriden by the central computer. So if there's a train stopped in the block ahead, a following train should be slowed to restricted speed.

That's what appears not to have happened here. For whatever reason, the wayside safety system appears to have failed, allowing the following train (whether on automatic or manual operation) to continue at full track speed (70 MPH at that location) right into the back of a stopped train.

Clearly, Metro has some big issues to address with their ATO system.

Clearly, Metro has some big issues to address with their ATO system.

If the onboard equipment suffered a Type 1 error the train may have started from its terminal without any speed control for dynamic obstructions. The operator and train would have thought they were operating on clear blocks the whole way. I don't think transit equipment has to perform a CSS test before departing its terminal.

Bear with me, as I may get some of the terminology wrong....and it may or may not have any bearing on the situation

I can attest to what appeared, and what I believe to be, new balises /rail bed system being placed next to the northbound tracks between Totten and Takoma. I normally sit in the rear cab commuting back home, which is how I noticed these. These have been there for about 2-3 weeks I'd estimate, but as of my last ride back sometime last week, they were not installed. However, a set is installed at the switch between NY Ave and Union Station. They look like two large black U shapes facing each other, with smaller cables in between. I figured these were part of the upgrade to the ATC system. If anyone can shed more light on if these are something different, please do.

Not saying these elements of the ATC played a role, and I don't know if they were placed on the southbound tracks as well, but just an observation I had from daily use of the line.

bbunge wrote: Photo shows a crane on the CSX track being used to assist in the investigation.

Interesting that it's not a track crane borrowed from CSX. I'd have thought that would be the first choice so as to avoid any roadbed damage. I wonder if the RR didn't have one nearby, or?