Reasonable Long Term Hopes

CComMack wrote:

25Hz wrote:By beholden, i mean the rail system is overwhelmingly about getting people to and from center city, in the morning and afternoon, respectively. Everything outside of that, if you hadn't noticed, has been cut by a LOT in the last few years. There's a train that now stops at link belt, vs all the way to doylestown for no apparent reason. It leaves a huge gap in the schedule. Restoring cuts like that would make people happy without much expenditure.

In any case, i'm just glad that doomsday budget didn't go into effect, and we can POSSIBLY have SOMETHING going on in a few years...

I don't think it's quite as bad as that. The lack of ridership outside the traditional-direction peaks has a lot to do with the lack of rail-accessible destinations in the suburbs. Where those exist, there's ridership; witness Wilmington, even with DelDOT absolutely bound and determined not to pay for a decent schedule. Granted the other half of the problem is the lack of frequency, but Delaware riders would kill for the once-an-hour schedules that the rest of the system (outside of Cynwyd) gets. There's plenty of room for improvement on both

That Link Belt train you hate is a symptom of things getting better, not worse; those are former Lansdale short-turns, and they were extended to take parking pressure off Lansdale Borough and divert cars to the giant parking lot at Colmar. That in turn will allow for more intensive development of downtown Lansdale, which ought to increase overall SEPTA traffic to and from Lansdale. For those who, like you, have short and porous memories, the thread from two and a half years ago is here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... lt#p972391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

all the more reason more trains should end in places, west chester not wawa, phoenixville not atglen, wilmington not marcus hook (deldot notwithstanding)....newark not "west trenton." ; ) actually the one thing wilmington could use is legitimate non-stop service. I'd think that better service to doylestown would go under reasonable short term hope

CComMack wrote:

25Hz wrote:By beholden, i mean the rail system is overwhelmingly about getting people to and from center city, in the morning and afternoon, respectively. Everything outside of that, if you hadn't noticed, has been cut by a LOT in the last few years. There's a train that now stops at link belt, vs all the way to doylestown for no apparent reason. It leaves a huge gap in the schedule. Restoring cuts like that would make people happy without much expenditure.

In any case, i'm just glad that doomsday budget didn't go into effect, and we can POSSIBLY have SOMETHING going on in a few years...

I don't think it's quite as bad as that. The lack of ridership outside the traditional-direction peaks has a lot to do with the lack of rail-accessible destinations in the suburbs. Where those exist, there's ridership; witness Wilmington, even with DelDOT absolutely bound and determined not to pay for a decent schedule. Granted the other half of the problem is the lack of frequency, but Delaware riders would kill for the once-an-hour schedules that the rest of the system (outside of Cynwyd) gets. There's plenty of room for improvement on both

That Link Belt train you hate is a symptom of things getting better, not worse; those are former Lansdale short-turns, and they were extended to take parking pressure off Lansdale Borough and divert cars to the giant parking lot at Colmar. That in turn will allow for more intensive development of downtown Lansdale, which ought to increase overall SEPTA traffic to and from Lansdale. For those who, like you, have short and porous memories, the thread from two and a half years ago is here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... lt#p972391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, this one was cut back from doylestown, there is now a gap in the schedule that was not there, leaving me with a single train trip to catch the last newtown bound 130. Before i'd have 2 trains to choose from, and in case i missed connection at jenkintown that later train was my backup. But that's just my own personal thing, other people wait at doylestown too, lots show up 4-5 minutes prior to departure. A train that never gets to doylestown station is useless to the people at doylestown station. I hope that cut back is reversed, as too the bus schedule cuts. Putting the hurt on people trying to ride the system isn't a good way to bolster revenues or station origination numbers.

25Hz wrote:

CComMack wrote:

25Hz wrote:By beholden, i mean the rail system is overwhelmingly about getting people to and from center city, in the morning and afternoon, respectively. Everything outside of that, if you hadn't noticed, has been cut by a LOT in the last few years. There's a train that now stops at link belt, vs all the way to doylestown for no apparent reason. It leaves a huge gap in the schedule. Restoring cuts like that would make people happy without much expenditure.

In any case, i'm just glad that doomsday budget didn't go into effect, and we can POSSIBLY have SOMETHING going on in a few years...

I don't think it's quite as bad as that. The lack of ridership outside the traditional-direction peaks has a lot to do with the lack of rail-accessible destinations in the suburbs. Where those exist, there's ridership; witness Wilmington, even with DelDOT absolutely bound and determined not to pay for a decent schedule. Granted the other half of the problem is the lack of frequency, but Delaware riders would kill for the once-an-hour schedules that the rest of the system (outside of Cynwyd) gets. There's plenty of room for improvement on both

That Link Belt train you hate is a symptom of things getting better, not worse; those are former Lansdale short-turns, and they were extended to take parking pressure off Lansdale Borough and divert cars to the giant parking lot at Colmar. That in turn will allow for more intensive development of downtown Lansdale, which ought to increase overall SEPTA traffic to and from Lansdale. For those who, like you, have short and porous memories, the thread from two and a half years ago is here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... lt#p972391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, this one was cut back from doylestown, there is now a gap in the schedule that was not there, leaving me with a single train trip to catch the last newtown bound 130. Before i'd have 2 trains to choose from, and in case i missed connection at jenkintown that later train was my backup. But that's just my own personal thing, other people wait at doylestown too, lots show up 4-5 minutes prior to departure. A train that never gets to doylestown station is useless to the people at doylestown station. I hope that cut back is reversed, as too the bus schedule cuts. Putting the hurt on people trying to ride the system isn't a good way to bolster revenues or station origination numbers.

which train are you referring to? There is still hourly service to Doylestown outside of the peak times. As CComMack wrote, the Link Belt trains are just extensions of Lansdale locals.

Just sayin'.

Public: "We expect more service for our growing region and new transportation bill"
SEPTA: ""Shut up."

The N*town word appears 3 times on this page, none of which refers to rail. Why do some insist on obsessing with the fact that people want it discussed? Is that the infamous anti-N*town faction I keep hearing of?

R3toNEC wrote:

25Hz wrote:

CComMack wrote:

25Hz wrote:By beholden, i mean the rail system is overwhelmingly about getting people to and from center city, in the morning and afternoon, respectively. Everything outside of that, if you hadn't noticed, has been cut by a LOT in the last few years. There's a train that now stops at link belt, vs all the way to doylestown for no apparent reason. It leaves a huge gap in the schedule. Restoring cuts like that would make people happy without much expenditure.

In any case, i'm just glad that doomsday budget didn't go into effect, and we can POSSIBLY have SOMETHING going on in a few years...

I don't think it's quite as bad as that. The lack of ridership outside the traditional-direction peaks has a lot to do with the lack of rail-accessible destinations in the suburbs. Where those exist, there's ridership; witness Wilmington, even with DelDOT absolutely bound and determined not to pay for a decent schedule. Granted the other half of the problem is the lack of frequency, but Delaware riders would kill for the once-an-hour schedules that the rest of the system (outside of Cynwyd) gets. There's plenty of room for improvement on both

That Link Belt train you hate is a symptom of things getting better, not worse; those are former Lansdale short-turns, and they were extended to take parking pressure off Lansdale Borough and divert cars to the giant parking lot at Colmar. That in turn will allow for more intensive development of downtown Lansdale, which ought to increase overall SEPTA traffic to and from Lansdale. For those who, like you, have short and porous memories, the thread from two and a half years ago is here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... lt#p972391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, this one was cut back from doylestown, there is now a gap in the schedule that was not there, leaving me with a single train trip to catch the last newtown bound 130. Before i'd have 2 trains to choose from, and in case i missed connection at jenkintown that later train was my backup. But that's just my own personal thing, other people wait at doylestown too, lots show up 4-5 minutes prior to departure. A train that never gets to doylestown station is useless to the people at doylestown station. I hope that cut back is reversed, as too the bus schedule cuts. Putting the hurt on people trying to ride the system isn't a good way to bolster revenues or station origination numbers.

which train are you referring to? There is still hourly service to Doylestown outside of the peak times. As CComMack wrote, the Link Belt trains are just extensions of Lansdale locals.

No. Want to know how i know, because I RODE THE TRAIN TEN TIMES WHEN IT WENT FROM DOYLESTOWN AND NOW IT HAS A GAP WHERE IT USED TO BE AND ON THE SCHEDULE IT NOW ENDS BEFORE DOYLESTOWN.

I sat in starbucks before walking to the station, i'm not nuts, i didn't imagine it.

Still hourly service?! What schedule are you looking at, clearly not the current one, or the last one either.

http://prntscr.com/30x21k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was a train at like 5:14, another at like 5:42, and then the 7:10. The one at 5:42 was cut back, and the whole schedule between that 3 and 7 hour train was changed. I don't have the older schedules anymore (i keep them in PDF's on my phone), but if any of you do, please post it here. In any case, the 7:10 was my backup train, and it takes too long to walk from where i go to get the 5:23 because i left there at 5 and had to RUN the entire way and barely made it several times.

25Hz wrote: No. Want to know how i know, because I RODE THE TRAIN TEN TIMES WHEN IT WENT FROM DOYLESTOWN AND NOW IT HAS A GAP WHERE IT USED TO BE AND ON THE SCHEDULE IT NOW ENDS BEFORE DOYLESTOWN.

I sat in starbucks before walking to the station, i'm not nuts, i didn't imagine it.

Still hourly service?! What schedule are you looking at, clearly not the current one, or the last one either.

Only ten times?

Let's change this discussion around - instead of harping on the fact that there is now a schedule gap, why do you think SEPTA made the change?

Lets cater to the three people that reverse commute from Doylestown, when we have this beautiful layover yard with one more track added to it.

scotty269 wrote: I sat in starbucks before walking to the station, i'm not nuts, i didn't imagine it.

Still hourly service?! What schedule are you looking at, clearly not the current one, or the last one either.

Only ten times?

Let's change this discussion around - instead of harping on the fact that there is now a schedule gap, why do you think SEPTA made the change?[/quote]
assuming it was done because SEPTA needed the equipment to address overcrowding elsewhere in the system, isn't it fair to ask to consider restoring it when septa buys new equipment? even if SEPTA was justified originally, which is probably was, SEPTA now has money for equipment expansion (among other things), so the reasons for the service change have been altered

bikentransit wrote:The N*town word appears 3 times on this page, none of which refers to rail. Why do some insist on obsessing with the fact that people want it discussed? Is that the infamous anti-N*town faction I keep hearing of?

The point that I was trying to make is that the discussion made a beeline for the edge of reason and beyond to touch on Newtown, West Chester, and other shenanigans that likely will not happen in my lifetime (I am not an old geezer, and not a hopeful college or school kid either). Seriously, the only reasonable long term hopes I can see are bringing the current system to a state of good repair (which includes rebuilding stations like 15th/Broad/subway concourse), Wawa extension, NHSL extension, Possible Reading service, and a new Boulevard Subway study about 30 years down the road. That's it. Nothing more.

Suburban Station wrote:Public: "We expect more service for our growing region and new transportation bill"
SEPTA: ""Shut up."

Couldn't have said it better, my friend.

25Hz wrote:No. Want to know how i know, because I RODE THE TRAIN TEN TIMES WHEN IT WENT FROM DOYLESTOWN AND NOW IT HAS A GAP WHERE IT USED TO BE AND ON THE SCHEDULE IT NOW ENDS BEFORE DOYLESTOWN.

And you, sir:

Suburban Station wrote:

scotty269 wrote:

25hz wrote: I sat in starbucks before walking to the station, i'm not nuts, i didn't imagine it.

Still hourly service?! What schedule are you looking at, clearly not the current one, or the last one either.

Only ten times?

Let's change this discussion around - instead of harping on the fact that there is now a schedule gap, why do you think SEPTA made the change?

assuming it was done because SEPTA needed the equipment to address overcrowding elsewhere in the system, isn't it fair to ask to consider restoring it when septa buys new equipment? even if SEPTA was justified originally, which is probably was, SEPTA now has money for equipment expansion (among other things), so the reasons for the service change have been altered

I think that it has already been stated that the Lansdale trains were extended to Link Belt in order to take advantage of the expanded parking at Colmar. If it's that bad, 25hz, get off at Noble and hop the 55 bus up to Doylestown.

R3 Passenger wrote: I think that it has already been stated that the Lansdale trains were extended to Link Belt in order to take advantage of the expanded parking at Colmar. If it's that bad, 25hz, get off at Noble and hop the 55 bus up to Doylestown.

it was stated but it hasn't been verified since the poster has since repeatedly disputed that claim. I stand by my claim that if the jokers at septa can't make the numbers work on a 6 miles extension where infrastructure is in place we'll never get anything. of course the details include, their models consistently underestimate ridership, their fares reduce ridership, they wanted to build FOUR stations in six miles at $30 million each. you could just as easily build one station for a lot less. then they need station sidings which means new signaling, new cat poles, etc. lastly, they turn around and say capital cost per rider is exorbitant. well, my friend, it's because they rig it that way. whether its a function of how they think or intentional I can't say. I think we, as a region, need to push them on one project. I think ease of restoration say it's west chester. I also believe that a successful outcome on the project could finally break the logjam that is septa/dvprc. for the first time since before 1950 the region became more rather than less dense yet the powers that be still think it's 1995.

Suburban Station wrote:

R3 Passenger wrote: I think that it has already been stated that the Lansdale trains were extended to Link Belt in order to take advantage of the expanded parking at Colmar. If it's that bad, 25hz, get off at Noble and hop the 55 bus up to Doylestown.

it was stated but it hasn't been verified since the poster has since repeatedly disputed that claim.

I have some timetables I saved from about the time that the R numbers were retired, but they are in a folder at the office. I will check those tomorrow and report back.

EDIT: Oh, and THIS

R3 Passenger wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:

R3 Passenger wrote: I think that it has already been stated that the Lansdale trains were extended to Link Belt in order to take advantage of the expanded parking at Colmar. If it's that bad, 25hz, get off at Noble and hop the 55 bus up to Doylestown.

it was stated but it hasn't been verified since the poster has since repeatedly disputed that claim.

I have some timetables I saved from about the time that the R numbers were retired, but they are in a folder at the office. I will check those tomorrow and report back.

EDIT: Oh, and THIS

the two arent mutually exclusive so im not sure what youre trying to prove. its not my argument (except that extending service further up the long is a reasonable long term hope). perhaps more interestingly there doesnt seem to be much sifference in the ridership numbers at colmar in the aspfy 14 vs fy 11

.....While we are at it, let's restore passenger service on the Perkiomen Branch.