Reasonable Long Term Hopes

SCB2525 wrote:I like that you snuck the Swampoodle connection in there. In that case though, you don't need to specify with (TRE) at North Philadelphia.

If this is truly a 50 year map where the old guard has died off and hopefully there's some transit-sensed people in the right places there's some notable omissions plus personal ideas.

- Atglen (somewhat likely within 10 years anyway)
- Frazer./202 station
- Ivy Ridge via Cynwyd
- Reading
- Bethlehem/Allentown
- Kennett Square/Oxford
- Airport line infill station(s). Lindbergh/61st? 70th?
- Boulevard Ext.

atglen is probably unnecessary, I do like Ivy ridge (which should connect to a restored 52nd st station which should be possible once the interlocking is reconfigured). Bethlehem-Allentown is probably best served by a Keystone type of service funded by PennDOT (the service would have to be funded by penndot anyway). Reading is the same. SEPTA service to pville or pottstown, Amtrak service beyond. swampoodle seems like a waste of money. It would create two VERY similar lines. I'd rather see the money put into fixing the CHW's trip over the nec which is ridiculously slow. That should shorten the trip by five minutes or so.

SCB2525 wrote:I didn't see your later post that addressed some of the things I listed, but notably the Boulevard extension is so ridiculously practical and useful that its downright criminal that it hasn't been done yet. If it were NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston or the like it would have been built in the 60s/70s and if proposed today in any of those cities would be built within 5 years.

I agree with you strongly that an orange line extension on the boulevard would be immensely helpful (anyone who has driven from Bensalem to Broad Street on Rt. 1 knows what a slow, busy, miserable drive that can be. The reason I didn't include in the map is because unlike restoring defunct regional rail service, or even extending the broad street line south one mile (although I might have overshot with putting the navy yard in as well), extending the orange line for approx. 12 miles to the Bucks County border would be a huge public works project. PlanPhilly did a nice write-up less than a year ago, http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/02/ ... er-options, estimating that this project alone would cost $3 billion dollars, of which SEPTA/Philly would at least have to cover half. The astronomic cost seems understandable: Burrying half of the Roosevelt Blvd. and/or building a subway or EL for all of that distance seems monumental in scale.

Even with the solid hope that SEPTA will have a $600-650 million dollar or so capital budget in 5 years, the Roosevelt Line strikes me as an over-reach: Sorely needed, but even more sorely unaffordable.

how about extending the el one station up bustleton to the other side of the boulevard?

SCB2525 wrote:... the Boulevard extension is so ridiculously practical and useful that its downright criminal that it hasn't been done yet. If it were NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston or the like it would have been built in the 60s/70s and if proposed today in any of those cities would be built within 5 years.

YES!

bikentransit wrote:... Montco wants a train to Reading or KOP, so studies get done ...

I'm reserving judgement on Reading, but KOP wants rails to KOP. The area is strangling on its growth with almost no room for more roads. A potential to move 8000+ unlinked trips/day out of cars and buses, and with part of the needed infrastructure already paid for, seems like a good foundation.

KOP Mall (whomever owns it) does not want the rail on its property.

bikentransit wrote:KOP Mall (whomever owns it) does not want the rail on its property.

It's not just the KoP Mall - it's the whole KoP area that needs the High Speed Line. My folks just moved out that way and visiting them this past holiday season I really got to see how bad traffic and transit is in the area. It's a (expletive) mess, so even if SEPTA extended the NHSL to within walking distance of the mall, it would be well worth it.

It is a horrible mess out there. I specifically avoid anything that has to do with the Schuylkill Expressway. If I need to shop at Needless Markup, I go to Cherry Hill.

bikentransit wrote:KOP Mall (whoever owns it) does not want the rail on its property.

Can you confirm? The Mall's management has flip-flopped multiple times but at the last public presentation they seemed to be in favor.

I haven't been watching closely, so no. I did hear the Mall wants to expand, and where they want to expand will pretty much ruin where the train would go, and they haven't been receptive to building the train into their design. This is probably best labelled as a "wait-and-see" situation. Given the history on expansion in this region, I'll take the pessimistic approach that this extension won't be happening.

Jamison! Great idea! Like another poster said, a station at Almshouse Road would be great, though, there probably would need to be some traffic/sound improvements at that location. Too bad the line doesn't curve towards Old York Road.

I like the map, but the extension to Atglen should really be on there, especially to serve Coatesville. Pottstown (electrified) makes quite a bit of sense with the development out there, and the Pottstown Area Rapid Transit Center is located there at the old train station as well. Plus it will help super commuters from Berks County as well. I'd imagine BARTA could extend a bus line to Pottstown so that Berks County commuters can access service to Philadelphia and points in between.

If we expand the BSL to the Navy Yard (which has a HUGE amount of peak ridership to the point the buses are stuffed now) I would say that the line should go under the river to terminate in New Jersey. Therefore, those who are going to the stadiums, Wells Fargo Center, the Navy Yard and even Center City won't have to clog the bridges or go all the way up into Camden on transit just to access their jobs. A simple one stop expansion into NJ could serve a lot of people and ease congestion.

Of course, the extension to the King of Prussia area via the NHSL will probably have more than 2 stops, but yes that is definitely necessary and practical.

Tritransit Area wrote: a station at Almshouse Road would be great

I've always thought the Warminster line should be extended to a station on Mearns Road (between Almshouse & Bristol) placed in the center of the industrial parks.

It would be more usable closer to Almshouse Rd. Funneling everyone from Warrington and Northampton to midway down Mearns would be kind of a pain to access. If this was actually in planning, land should have been purchased where the 55+ community was built at Bristol Rd. (SEPTA also screwed the pooch not buying land where another 55+ community sprang up; directly adjacent to the Warminster parking lot) because the demand could certainly support a station at both Bristol and Almshouse roads. If you disagree, you haven't driven this area during rush hour.

You could conceivably wedge a station behind the Camars Rd industrial area and build an access rd to Bristol next to the greenhouses for an Ivyland station. The gigantic field NE of the tracks at Almshouse would be a great location for the Jamison/Northampton station.

A station in Buckingham would do well too but there's a whole lot of nothing in between, and at that point you start to really eat away at the NHIRR.

I take that back; a Rushland station would probably do well to serve Newtown folks looking to bypass Richboro via Swamp Rd. The fact remains though that you start to step on NHIRR's toes plus it starts to get pretty curvy N of Almshouse.

maybe this isn't reasonable, but i've always wondered about subsidizing an NH&I commuter service during the weekend, say four round trips a day, warminster to new hope during the tourist season. i know they do it once or twice a year; anyone have an idea how successful it is?

bikentransit wrote:I haven't been watching closely, so no. I did hear the Mall wants to expand, and where they want to expand will pretty much ruin where the train would go, and they haven't been receptive to building the train into their design. This is probably best labelled as a "wait-and-see" situation. Given the history on expansion in this region, I'll take the pessimistic approach that this extension won't be happening.

The mall has actually been very supportive of the rail expansion. The only part that they were against was the proposed route (one of over 2 dozen potential routes) that took the train between the two mall buildings. The mall has their own expansion plans and will soon be filling in the area between the Plaza and the Court to combine both into one single building. The mall expansion would be completed long before the rail expansion, so it would not make sense for them to incorporate the rail design into their own, not to mention doing so would cut significantly into their new retail space that they want to add.

There's a lot of support for this project so I will go the other way and take the optimistic approach that this extension will actually happen.