• Green Line Extension Lechmere to Medford

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by Adams_Umass_Boston
 
The EGE wrote: Wonderland garage delayed,
I believe they are building it right now. Certainly looks like a garage.

I too have been following along on their website.
http://www.greenlineextension.org/

I am shocked at how far they have come and how fast its over. I believe they had just had meeting all last month on the finalization of station designs. In fact i was emailed yesterday about them posting that info on there website.
  by The EGE
 
Wonderland garage is indeed under construction, but legally it's supposed to be finished by the end of 2011, which they're saying won't quite happen. And right now, that's looking to be the only mitigation project that actually got done properly.

The Conservation Law Foundation is very displeased with the MBTA and EOT, and rightly so. They have failed to do what they were told by a court of law to do, and failed to create a badly needed extension on time. It has been 5 years since the Big Dig was completed, and it will be another 9 years before this is completed - 14 years of additional traffic without mitigation in place. One mitigation project - Green Line to Arborway - was ducked completely, another - Red-Blue Connector - is being gutted, and the Fairmount Line was improved far less than the area needs. Once I'm a resident of Boston in the near future, I plan to ask my elected officials what they're doing about this failure - as should everyone in Boston, Somerville, and Medford.
  by The EGE
 
I also find their claim of needing to acquire all the properties - 19 more - before design work begins in earnest to be bullshit of the rankest kind. Yes, it was a problem for the Greenbush Line. But I don't see why design has to wait until after they own all the properties. It reeks of making excuses.

And they should focus work on what they can start now. There are all of five buildings anywhere near the ROW between the current viaduct and where the line crosses the Fitchburg Line, and I'm not sure how many of those (if any) will actually come down. (There's a lot of space currently occupied by gravel parking lots). So why don't they focus on getting those few properties, and then start on the work to get the line at least to Brickbottom (which shouldn't require much, if any property acquisition)? I mean, the only property to acquire at Brickbottom / Washington Street is a lot filled with old broken cars.

That's how this project is going to have to work, if they're going to delay it. Break it up into segments. Got the clearance for that first segment? Design it NOW, and get trains running. Got everything you needed on the Fitchburg Line? Good, design starts tomorrow, and the parts that could be pre-designed get shovels in the ground.

Time is of the essence? Then use the same tactic that worked on highway projects like the I-93 bridges and (in CA) the 405 work. Time-sensitive contracts: the longer it takes, the less the contractor gets paid - but they get penalized if they do shoddy work. Doesn't end up costing more, because it seems that the longer something drags on the more expensive it gets.

I assume that most of the property needed is for station projects, as they already own the CR ROWs. So if they're looking to avoid getting punished, maybe they should build the College Avenue station first and getting service there as soon as possible, even if it runs express from Science Park (or Lechmere 2.0). Make the other stations in-fills as property is bought up; use the time-variable contracts to get the work done on nights and over weekends.

Now, maybe that's not possible. Maybe they have to build the entire Phase 1 in one solid chunk. Maybe they really are doing their absolute best, and this is simply too hard to do before 2018/2020. But to me, it looks like they could be doing a lot more, and looking at some earlier-focused alternatives, on what is the number one extension priority (excepting Wachusett and Wickford, both of which are already in building).
  by BostonUrbEx
 
The Lechemere move should happen ASAP. Grab all the land needed for Union Square and the yard ASAP. All the while working on attaining everything necessary for the Somerville stretch. There's no need to hold everything up like this. Take it one station at a time if you have to, but as long as a momentum is maintained things are looking good and great benefits are coming...
  by CS
 
Somerville Mayor Curtatone Responds to GLX delay
(from Universal Hub)
In light of yesterday's announcement about the Green Line, I want to be clear about where we stand as a community. A four-year delay of the Green Line Extension bereft of any tangible commitments from the Commonwealth is simply unacceptable. Somerville deserves a transparent, accurate timeline for the Green Line Extension, with clear deliverables. Fundamental matters of social justice, economic justice and environmental justice are at stake in this project. Governor Patrick promised to extend rail transit to the most densely populated community in New England and he needs to break ground while he is still Governor. The State must do better than declare it is going to miss the legally mandated 2014 deadline for the extension with vague promises that it is still “behind” the project.

I plan on meeting with the Governor to help restore sanity and accountability to this process. Residents and business owners in Somerville, Cambridge and Medford need to inundate the Governor, their state representatives, MassDOT and the MBTA with letters, calls and emails demanding a definitive plan for the Green Line Extension be adopted. This is a clear case of the people needing to remind the government of its responsibilities.
  by 3rdrail
 
The State has leverage because all that they have to fall back on in their argument not to proceed is to say "if the money's not there, there's nothing to build with." The statement in and of itself is a true one, whether or not it is true as it applies in this case. This throws the ball into the opposition's court in that to overcome this argument, you must prove where money exists to fund such a project. In these pre-depression times, good luck with that. Also, in my opinion, if you think that it's only delayed by a couple of years, I think that you're in for a surprise in 2013.
  by jamesinclair
 
Folks, the delay is not new, the MBTA obviously new about it since 2010.

-Map replacement project. You dont replace every map in the system with a 4 year lifespan. 10 years? Yup.
-Type 9 order. This takes time. The order should have been put in last month for 2015 service start. There was no rush, and it was obvious the roder was being prepped for 2020
-Science Park. Remember asking why they didnt wait to delay the SP closure and time it with the lechmere closure? Well, if the lechmere closure isnt until 2018, it makes sense to do SP now.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
3rdrail wrote:The State has leverage because all that they have to fall back on in their argument not to proceed is to say "if the money's not there, there's nothing to build with." The statement in and of itself is a true one, whether or not it is true as it applies in this case. This throws the ball into the opposition's court in that to overcome this argument, you must prove where money exists to fund such a project. In these pre-depression times, good luck with that. Also, in my opinion, if you think that it's only delayed by a couple of years, I think that you're in for a surprise in 2013.
If the money doesn't exist, you don't lie lie lie lie lie lie lie about how everything's full speed ahead for close to a bloody decade, sign and reaffirm many times over legally-binding agreements to build it, and then pull the rug out. Again. For about the 5th time on one of these transit commitments. If they made an argument about money being tight in advance and cautiously, this isn't nearly so galling. When it comes the same week as more of this crap, it's doubling galling:
Gov. Deval Patrick's South Coast rail project leader, Kristina Egan, left in June, causing speculation and concern that the momentum she has developed will be lost.

State Rep. Antonio F.D. Cabral, D-New Bedford, asked for and received a meeting on Thursday with the governor and other legislators along the proposed route.

He said later in a statement that he was very satisfied with the governor's pledge of continued commitment. "I have every confidence that the administration is working aggressively to move this project forward," Cabral said. Patrick has promised to replace Egan as quickly as possible.
What we're getting is the equivalent of saying "Sucker!" to all of Somerville just like JP, Lynn, and other neighborhoods got. It smashes another leg out from under what little trust people still have left in transportation in Massachusetts and the intentions of the people running transportation in Massachusetts.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
BTW...the CLF is not taking this sitting down.

http://www.commonwealthmagazine.org/The ... delay.aspx
Conservation Law Foundation staff attorney Rafael Mares said that by delaying the Green Line far past its stated 2014 completion date, the state is opening itself up to a citizens’ lawsuit under the Clean Air Act, and to a possible loss of federal highway funds. He also said that in asking the state Department of Environmental Protection to approve the shelving of the Red Line-Blue Line Connector, the T is asking the state for relief that only the federal Environmental Protection Agency can grant.
Those are fighting words they haven't used before, especially the warning about loss of highway funds as a direct consequence of the legal actions from this delay. But also challenging the state's own jurisdiction to even be able to cancel Red-Blue. With the Big Dig toppling another EOT chair and being another politically threatening crisis to the Patrick admin, that is a veiled legal threat against the political capital of the most embedded power-brokers in the state. It's not a little temper tantrum from urban do-gooders or a few folks in JP who are gonna re-elect the same folks every time. If they have nothing to lose among their elite interests, it's made to be ignored. If they lose a capital source they're dependent on for firewalling the Big Dig political fallout, it is a potentially imminent danger to what's most near and dear to them. That's where this warning makes them *gulp* a little.

What happens from here, who knows. We've only heard the initial-most reaction from the CLF, Somerville, and all the other steamrolled stakeholders. But you can bet there's a risk assessment going on among Patrick's advisors on what-if's for how this develops, how it could hurt them, and what ways they can keep a lid on it. I'm somewhat encouraged by this tactic. It's playing hardball on their insular home turf. They almost never have to worry about rabble from the vox populi doing any harm...unless it threatens their home turf.
  by -Garrett
 
Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:
The EGE wrote: Wonderland garage delayed,
I believe they are building it right now. Certainly looks like a garage.

I too have been following along on their website.
http://www.greenlineextension.org/

I am shocked at how far they have come and how fast its over. I believe they had just had meeting all last month on the finalization of station designs. In fact i was emailed yesterday about them posting that info on there website.
You know, I'm really looking forward to this. I'm sure when they are done, they will next start on the Arborway and Watertown extensions, lol
  by Arborway
 
Ultimately, the T will build a few parking spaces next to a commuter rail station in an exburb and say it's the same thing as extending the Green Line.

Because they have practice doing that.
  by madcrow
 
Arborway wrote:Ultimately, the T will build a few parking spaces next to a commuter rail station in an exburb and say it's the same thing as extending the Green Line.

Because they have practice doing that.
I'm not quite that cynical. The T also has a long history of delayed extensions that nevertheless DO manage to get built, albeit decades late. I predict that the Somerville extension will open some time around 2030.
  by #5 - Dyre Ave
 
2018? Because the money's not there? So why doesn't the Patrick administration stop further work on Fall River/New Bedford project? If there's no money to build the Medford and Somerville GL extensions, how can there still be money for FR/NB? I hope CLF sues the state and the T over this! This is an outrage. At this rate, the 2nd Avenue Subway's first phase is going to be up and running before the GL goes to Medford and Somerville.

At the very least get something open. Why not start with a relocated Lechmere station and the Union Square stop as a first phase? Does the whole thing need to open in one shot?
  by The EGE
 
(Not quote-sniping to be rude, just a couple different things to address)
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:2018? Because the money's not there? So why doesn't the Patrick administration stop further work on Fall River/New Bedford project? If there's no money to build the Medford and Somerville GL extensions, how can there still be money for FR/NB?
There's not money for South Coast Rail in the first place. It's politics at this point, and I imagine that the southern cities are better political capital than Somerville and Medford, so they carry out the charade of SCR and give lip service to GLX.
I hope CLF sues the state and the T over this!
It's very possible. The CLF has serious legal muscle and they hold all the cards here.
At this rate, the 2nd Avenue Subway's first phase is going to be up and running before the GL goes to Medford and Somerville.
SAS Phase I is currently scheduled for 2016. Sad but true.
At the very least get something open. Why not start with a relocated Lechmere station and the Union Square stop as a first phase? Does the whole thing need to open in one shot?
Definitely getting something open soon is a good idea. Union Square is not a likely target, only because it doesn't get into Medford like the settlement says. But there's no reason they shouldn't be starting on the Lechmere move and getting tracks laid on the Pan Am land, starting yesterday.
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