Amtrak Borealis: fka Empire Builder 2nd Daily Frequency Chicago - St Paul

Caltrain has been retiring the oldest gallery cars to make room for the new trainsets. The oldest cars have been spares since 2020 if not before.

https://www.caltrain.com/news/caltrain- ... tion-nears

The EGE wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:40 pm Caltrain has been retiring the oldest gallery cars to make room for the new trainsets. The oldest cars have been spares since 2020 if not before.

https://www.caltrain.com/news/caltrain- ... tion-nears

Thanks.

Tadman wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 1:24 pm Given the dumpster fire that Siemens equipment is lately and the long string of California Sumitomo gallery cars going into storage from Caltrains electrification, now would be a good time to pick up those cars, rebuild and put long-distance appropriate seats in them (similar to CNW's Peninsula 400, this is possible and been done), and deploy them soon.

There are something like 100+ of these gallery cars idle now.

I've been in one of these cars when VRE showed them off during a train day. My opinion on them has remained the same: The only thing useful on them are the trucks.

Lets make no mistake. For a timing perspective, the Borealis is going to steal some customers off the Empire Builder. But rebuilding the gallery cars for this is a huge mistake -- a waste of time and money, in light of the Airo trainsets. Those gallery cars are scrap.

No doubt this train is going to take people off the builder including myself. The difference in price is hard to ignore. Winona to Chicago for $33 vs $143 on the Empire Builder and to add on not having to guess if your eastbound train is going to be late ,really late or not at all is a thing of the past.

It seems more likely to me that the Borealis (?!) is more likely to add passengers to the EB than take them away; if those fares free up a seat from Chicago to Seattle which might otherwise have been booked to La Crosse it has added a Seattle passenger in addition to gaining one to La Crosse.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:13 pm It seems more likely to me that the Borealis (?!) is more likely to add passengers to the EB than take them away; if those fares free up a seat from Chicago to Seattle which might otherwise have been booked to La Crosse it has added a Seattle passenger in addition to gaining one to La Crosse.

Yes absolutely! IMO this will be a repeat of what happened to the Crescent when the 1st Lynchburg regional started service. The number of passengers probably will remain static as did the Crescent. But revenue passenger miles may go by 10 -15 %. What will be needed to make an educated guess is how many times the EB has been sold out on one or more legs MSP <> CHI.

Now we do need to recognize that EB's rider capacity compared to the past to now and future can skew these figures widely.

I have a Chicago-St Paul ticket on the Westbound Borealis for May 25. This was a spur of the moment ad on to a Chicago trip, I would not have done it on the Builder's schedule.

The Builder is almost always sold out Winona to Chicago vis versa the day or two before, especially on Fridays and Sundays. Right now I hope this new train doesn't become a sell out too.

superbad wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 8:48 am The Builder is almost always sold out Winona to Chicago vis versa the day or two before, especially on Fridays and Sundays. Right now I hope this new train doesn't become a sell out too.

Have no idea if Amtrak reservation system can do the following but if it can ----
1. Limit local bookings MSP - CHI on each #8 until it leaves Minot (scheduled ~ 23:00) to allow for unlimited booking before that time west of Minot. Would expect very few persons booking east of Minot after 23:00.
2. For #7 limit local booking until 09:00 day of departure.

There are hints that some kinds of limitations are for both the Crescents, Carolinian, and the 3 Silvers but have been unable to verify! I am sure that historical yield management can change these times on each train on a daily basis, that is if reservations is capable?

If 1340 &8 is sold out MKE south then last minute riders might have to change trains at MKE?

west point wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:38 pm There are hints that some kinds of limitations are for both the Crescents, Carolinian, and the 3 Silvers but have been unable to verify! I am sure that historical yield management can change these times on each train on a daily basis, that is if reservations is capable?

Could you elaborate on these a bit? I am having a hard time imagining what these booking limitations look like on the state-supported Carolinian.

Bob Roberts wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 8:45 am I have a Chicago-St Paul ticket on the Westbound Borealis for May 25. This was a spur of the moment ad on to a Chicago trip, I would not have done it on the Builder's schedule.

I booked a seat on the May 21 westbound and the May 22 eastbound. Business class was sold out WB, but I was able to snag a business class seat EB.

Bob Roberts wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:53 pm

west point wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:38 pm There are hints that some kinds of limitations are for both the Crescents, Carolinian, and the 3 Silvers but have been unable to verify! I am sure that historical yield management can change these times on each train on a daily basis, that is if reservations is capable?

Could you elaborate on these a bit? I am having a hard time imagining what these booking limitations look like on the state-supported Carolinian.

If any such limitations exist on the Carolinian, they exist to limit, but not prevent, booking travel between Charlotte, Raleigh, and points in-between to allow passengers to book travel from Charlotte, Raleigh, and points in-between to cities not served by the Piedmont trains. Do note that the train was stopped for a couple of years after its first introduction because of the unexpected high demand for travel between Charlotte, Raleigh, and points in-between led to lower than budgeted revenues, causing the subsidy to be more than budgeted (and at the time, NC wasn't willing to handle the increased subsidy).

At one point Amtrak was clear that the Silver Service trains and the Cresent could not be booked for travel between NYC and Washington to ensure that passengers wanting to travel south of Washington could book seats. I don't think they blocked tickets on the Carolinian the same way since that train used to carry cars that were NYC-Washington only.

Looks like a test train ran today. The consist was:
1 Genesis locomotive
4 Horizon coaches
1 Amfleet I cafe/business

No push-pull thought for sure this train would be.

When it has come to booking on the Builder, I live in Winona, there are times the same train is $143 to go to Chicago and $27 to go to Milwaukee.. on the same train.... I usually will book through Milwaukee, go to the Public Market and take a Hiawatha after that which just saved me $116...
The last time I tried this I tried move my flip trip from Milwaukee Departure to Chicago. I was told I couldn't do so, it was sold out. flash forward to Monday where I missed my 1:05 Hiawatha to Milwaukee thanks to being on the Red line train from hell that took nearly 2 hours to go from Howard to Grand(another topic) I thought I was screwed. Pulled out the Amtrak app. Low and behold I was able to buy Builder ticket to to Winona from Chicago for $62 less than 2 hours before departure. cancelled the other two trips and made it home in time for work.

So I have no clue how their booking system works,but it does some strange stuff.