• Amtrak on the Florida East Coast FEC Jacksonville - Miami

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Noel Weaver
 
First off, please let me make it very plain, this was NOT a railfan event. I was on both trains for good and legitimate
reasons as was Seth Bramson who is FEC Company Historian.
Of course there may have been others as well, after all railfans also work in the industry and in some cases are local, county
or other political office holders too.
The operation of these two trains were two separate happenings:
The southbound trip was truly an inspection train to demonstrate the condition of the Florida East Coast Railroad track
structure, signals and other operating aspects. Amtrak people from top down were very pleased with what they saw which
was a freight railroad that is more than willing to work and cooperate with them, that has a track structure second to none
with regard to freight railroads and an area that really wants Amtrak. We made only one stop from the Amtrak Station in
Jacksonville to the FEC yard in Hialeah and that was a Titusville for a minute or so to drop off a high official. With the
exception of Seth Bramson and myself, everybody else aboard the southbound train was either Amtrak or FEC.
The northbound trip which picked up passengers in DOWNTOWN MIAMI, the first train to do so in 47 years as the last
passenger train operated out of downtown in January, 1963 the day before the unfortunate strike. On this trip we did not
have quite as many officials but we had a lot of them along with politicians, commissioners, federal, state, county and local
officials and other involved parties. Governor Charlie Crist boarded the train in Miami and visited with everybody on board,
I felt honored to shake his hand. He was unable to ride due to the nasty oil spill which is or will affect the coast of Florida
as well as most of the southeast. Lots of well meaning folks said that we would not be able to go downtown but WE DID.
This particular section of the Florida East Coast would require a total rebuild in order to be a part of the operation but the
important thing is that it is still available and the work could be done. It is only 5 miles from the Little River Connection to
the main line to downtown. On the northbound trip we made various stops at the cities where stops are planned.
Now the big question is what will come of this? Only my opinion but I think there will be more meetings between interested
parties, maybe some more stimulus money can be had and maybe some local support to help build suitable passenger
facilities at the various localities where it is proposed for these trains to stop, all will help. Will the trains switch to the
CSX/Tri-Rail line at West Palm or will they continue down the east coast to Downtown Miami? Who knows, we have to get
some commitments from various parties and some agreements between various parties, this will take time but it is
possible. After riding both directions it is very clear to me that there is a huge desire on all parties to make this happen
and I think the chances are much better than they were the last time such an operation took place.
Finally, I recall a remark on here not long ago about scenery on the FEC, and his reply was a picture of the Stuart Bridge,
This is probably the most scenic area but this is a far more scenic route than the present route via Orlando and the former
SAL. There are many scenic vistas along various waterways, substantial bridges, nice parts of many of the cities and much
more to see than on the present route. More important this route is about 65 miles shorter and far faster than the present
route.
I will be putting out appeals in the future especially to those who live in Florida to write to their government representatives
and leaders encouraging that happen and the sooner the better.
I might have more to say about this at a later time.
Noel Weaver
  by george matthews
 
Are there any stations available for use along this route? Presumably, if a regular service were started there would be costs for providing stations.
  by Noel Weaver
 
There has not been a scheduled passenger train on the FEC since 1968. No stations remain that can be used in 2010.
Having said that, I do not think it needs to be terribly costly to build a platform and at least a temporary station building at
the various planned stops. You could build a temporary building if the finances were not in order to build a really permanent
building.
As for times, we have a gentleman on our yahoo group who has been working on the times, I might be able to post something eventually. I kept a record of the northbound trip but we had a somewhat padded schedule and even at that, we
lost a certain amount of time at some stops because of speeches, picture taking etc. Stuart and St. Augustine were the
longest station stops, Stuart because of a Amtrak crew change and the locals put on packages of goodies and box lunches
(very good) for everybody and St. Augustine for speeches and photography.
I kept a brief record of times on the southbound trip on a piece of scrap paper and you guessed it, I am having a problem
finding that scrap paper. We made it in less than 7 hours from Jacksonville to the FEC facility at Hialeah and that was with
no intermediate stops except at Titusville to drop off an official for a connection. Compare that with a maximum speed
much of the way of 60 MPH and I think we could accomplish the same trip times making the stops with a 90 MPH speed
which this line is certainally capable of. The Amtrak engines have cab signals and they are all computerized and it should
not be a huge project to make them compatible to the Florida East Coast cab signal and train control set up.
There will be public workshops and station design sessions at all eight points where they plan to stop on the Florida East
Coast this month. I will post the schedule of these meetings later tonight if I can get my system to work properly.
Look for positive things to happen here, it might take some time but this time I think they will.
Noel Weaver
  by Noel Weaver
 
Below is the schedule for public workshops and station design sessions:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just like Mark, I was also unable to reproduce the actual schedule so I am typing it out here:
City Public Workshop Station Design
St. Augustine Tues, May 11 6-8 PM Wed., May 12 9AM to 12 Noon
St. Augustine City Hall Same location
75 king Street

Daytona Beach Wed., May 12 6-8 PM Thurs, May 12 11AM to 2 PM
Daytona Beach City Hall Same location
Conf. Room 149-B
301 S. Ridgewood Ave.

Titusville Tues, May 18 6-8 PM Wed., May 19 9 AM to 12 Noon
Titusville City Hall Same location
555 S. Washington Ave

Cocoa Mon. May 3 6-8 PM Tues, May 4 1-3 PM
Cocoa City Hall Same location
65 Stone Street

Melbourne Mon., May 17 6-8 PM Tuesday, May 18 9 AM - 12 Noon
Melbourne City Hall (Council Chamber) Same location
900 East Strawbridge Avenue

Vero Beach Thurs, May 20 6-8 PM Fri., May 21 2 PM - 4 PM
Vero Beach City Hall (Council Chambers) Same location, Staff Training Room,
1053 20th Place 2nd Floor

Fort Pierce Thurs, May 6 6-8 PM Friday, May 7 10 AM to 1 PM
River Walk Center Old City Hall
600 North Indian River Drive 315 Avenue A

Stuart Tues, May 25 6-8 PM Wed., May 26 1-3 PM
Stuart City Hall, (City Commission Chambers) Same location
121 SW Flagler Ave

Hope this is OK, my keyboard is starting to wear out, maybe time for a new one.
I hope we can get our people to attend these sessions and get involved if you live in these areas. They
need all the help we can give them.
As I stated earlier, I plan to attend the one in Stuart both days. Even if we do not say anything, it will be
helpful to attend and hear what they have to say.
I have been quite impressed with Kim Delaney and the good people of Martin County, let's do all that we
can to help them and all of the others involved in this worthy project.
Regards,
Noel Weaver

The readers of this item on railroaddotnet who live in this part of Florida, we welcome your help and I hope you might be
able to attend one of the above sessions. I will attend the one at Stuart and there is a slight possibility that I might be
able to get up to Fort Pierce this week as well. We need and will accept help from everybody for this important project.
Noel Weaver
  by PB
 
Noel,

With all the talk about stops north of West Palm, where's all the talk about the rest of South Florida...Boca, Pompano, Ft Lauderdale, Hollywood, etc?

If the idea of bringing those from Northern and Central Florida to/from Downtown Miami is on the table, why have all these other communities along the route been left out?

And I hope the answer is not because it would take away from Tri-Rail.
  by joshuahouse
 
Although Mr. Weaver will have a clearer answer for this, I suspect at least part of the reason is that Amtrak's purpose is intercity rail and the distances you're discussing there don't really meet that definition. However the definition itself does float somewhat.
  by Noel Weaver
 
The cities down here were not really left out. We will continue to have Amtrak service regardless of whether it comes down
the Florida East Coast or on the present route. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tri-Rail. The FEC is more than willing to
work with Amtrak but they do not want Tri-Rail with its 25 or so trains each way, they do not have the track capacity for
commuter trains and to operate commuter trains on the FEC will require a big time expansion in trackage. This could happen but it would cost much more than any government down here has available to spend.
There are a few different alternatives that might work but they would have to be acceptable to the Florida East Coast and
not interfere with their IM and other trains.
What's going to happen here? I really do not know and neither does anybody else at this point. I hope and I think the two
Amtrak trains that operate down this way will be shifted to the Florida East Coast at Jacksonville while a portion of these
two trains will be either cut off or added at Jacksonville as the case may be in order to continue service to Orlando and
Tampa. There are a number of different things that could happen in Florida, stay tuned and it might get interesting.
Noel Weaver
  by transitrider
 
I do support this restoration Amtrak to run on FEC line and I understand it takes longer to have the train to be up/running but why 3 years? Can't they do better than that? The tracks are alreayd there unless it needs little tune up? All I know in Jax and WPB, the tracks needs to be reworked then volia, Amtrak can run on the tracks. Also, there are need stations to be built.

I think this can be done in 6 months, not 3 years. I think it's too long and money to be wasted if wait 3 years long.

By the way, I manage to find all videos that railfans filmed, you can take a look:

http://www.transitrider.info/newsflash/amtrakonfec/
  by Jishnu
 
Noel, is the plan to build the connector from FEC to Tri-Rail(CSX) just north of West Palm so that Amtrak can switch over to ex-CSX route to Miami Amtrak station? Or is the plan to run these train on the FEC to a new a separate station in Miami on FEC?
  by jamesinclair
 
Jishnu wrote:Noel, is the plan to build the connector from FEC to Tri-Rail(CSX) just north of West Palm so that Amtrak can switch over to ex-CSX route to Miami Amtrak station? Or is the plan to run these train on the FEC to a new a separate station in Miami on FEC?
If this isn't happening for 3 years, wouldnt the new miami central train station be available?
  by Noel Weaver
 
As I have stated before, nobody knows yet whether the trains would run the FEC all the way to Miami and use a terminal
downtown or whether they would switch to the state owned trackage at WPB and ride on the Tri-Rail trackage between WPB
and Miami using the present Amtrak Station in Hialeah.
My personal opinion only, I do not think a station at the Miami Airport would particularly benefit Amtrak and I hope Amtrak
will stay where they are rather than going down there. It would require a long back up move to their facility at Hialeah where
they can service the locomotives and cars and I don't know if there is enough room at Miami Airport to build a facility that
would be large enough with platforms long enough for Amtrak either.
I am pretty sure that there is land available downtown for a passenger facility for Amtrak and such a location would be better
for people headed to Miami Beach or the Port of Miami for a cruise ship. The existing Amtrak Station in Hialeah is not in a
really good part of town either. The Downtown Lead would require a complete rebuilding but the important thing is that it is
intact and available. There would be issues here too moving a train to Hialeah for servicing but at least Amtrak could build
what they need here and they would be in a good location too.
I guess we will just have to wait to see what happens down the road a year or two.
I agree that it would not take that long to build stations but we have to remember that politics are involved at every level and political things often take time to happen. I fully agree that maybe by the end of 2010 we could have facilities that could
handle passengers but that will not happen. They will need to secure funding for facilities and no matter what route the
trains use in this part of Florida, it can't happen without trackwork someplace whether it be WPB or Miami or elsewhere.
We will just have to stay tuned.
Noel Weaver
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