And the cutting begins

HillDweller wrote:I just saw the proposed cuts for the Morris County bus service-- almost entirely eliminated. It looks like my usual joke about it being against the Morris County Rules to live here without a car is about to become a reality.

Maybe SEPTA should take over NJT.

Ken S. wrote:

HillDweller wrote:I just saw the proposed cuts for the Morris County bus service-- almost entirely eliminated. It looks like my usual joke about it being against the Morris County Rules to live here without a car is about to become a reality.

Maybe SEPTA should take over NJT.

Then it'll become the Southeastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey Transportation Authority, also known, as two troubles for the price of one. NJT would see its first Delaware train thouh :D

Looking at some of the details, are they really taking away the off-peak discount for rail? Off-peak round trip tickets are twice as much as one way peak (i.e. no discount)?? That completely sucks, because it means the off-peak ticket prices aren't going up by 25%, they're going up by 40%! Just at the time when its *most* convenient to drive too. I love to train, but its hard to justify spending $32 for 2 to go to Manhattan.

Question: single tickets (one way, ORT) don't expire, right? So would it make sense to go and buy a couple hundred bucks worth now, and use them over the next few years? Or is there some rule that would prevent that?

It all depends on what you drive. Poor and working class folks dont drive around in 10mpg Escalades, Yukons, and Armadas.
But since Christie loves the rich, it makes sense why he opposes increasing gas taxes.

gardendance wrote:Gas tax recessive depends on if you use gas.

$100 a year in gas tax and $20,000 per year income is recessive compared to $100,000 per year income, but in the perfect world where the poor person takes transit and pays no gas tax it's not recessive.
I think we assume the lower class uses public transit more than other economic groups. If that's true it can mitigate the recessive traits of the tax.

However in this thread's theme it looks like we're effectively going to impose a recessive tax on the poor by making public transit more expensive.

Devil's advocate here, I believe quite the opposite when looking at the big picture - environment, safety, etc....
If each public transit ride is a money loser and each penny in gas tax collected is a money maker then it's to the treasury's advantage to have fewer public transit riders and more gasoline purchases.

Ken S. wrote:

HillDweller wrote:I just saw the proposed cuts for the Morris County bus service-- almost entirely eliminated. It looks like my usual joke about it being against the Morris County Rules to live here without a car is about to become a reality.

Maybe SEPTA should take over NJT.

We get it...you like SEPTA...

njt/mnrrbuff wrote: On the schedule, I don't see the point about having 247 and 1029 as two separate trains, especially if 247 runs between HOB and MSU. My point that I'm trying to make is since the Mtc-Btn is diesel west of MSU, and diesels can only use HOB under their own power, just combine both 247 and 1029, which I see is on the proposed plan.

A couple reasons for that.

1029's diesel is already at MSU from 1028.

244 (another train on the chopping block) needs equipment at MSU, so 247 provides it.

You and one other person are the only ones complaining about the cross platform transfer anyway.....so why add two additional equipment moves that are unnecessary?

If 244 and the 102x's go away, then yes, it would make sense to just run a diesel straight through from HOB to Dover.

Roadgeek Adam wrote: Then it'll become the Southeastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey Transportation Authority, also known, as two troubles for the price of one. NJT would see its first Delaware train thouh :D

Ooh, ooh! SEPTA and NJT need to combine for the sole purpose of being able to run a train from Newark to Newark!

We pronounce Newerk NJ and New Ark De differently:)

Did you mean Armani instead of Armada?:)
Anyway that's another mitigating item in the gas tax, if the poor person drives a relatively fuel efficient cheap compact car, and the rich person drives a gas guzzler, the rich person may use more gas and pay more in gas taxes even at the same rate and even if they drive the same distance.

And don't forget the revenue, which I assume to be significant, that NJ gets from out of state drivers who tank up here to avoid higher prices in their home states. If our gas taxes reach parity with our 2 much more populous neighboring states, whose most populous areas are just a tolled river crossing away, for which I believe we get half the toll proceeds, our gas prices won't be as attractive to them.

gardendance wrote: And don't forget the revenue, which I assume to be significant, that NJ gets from out of state drivers who tank up here to avoid higher prices in their home states. If our gas taxes reach parity with our 2 much more populous neighboring states, whose most populous areas are just a tolled river crossing away, for which I believe we get half the toll proceeds, our gas prices won't be as attractive to them.

I certainly, certainly agree that it should stay low enough to attract out-of-staters to buy gas here, but its currently 18.4 cents lower than NY and 16.6 cents lower than Pa. So an increase of 5, or even 8 or 9 cents, would still keep a nice difference.

checkthedoorlight wrote:

njt/mnrrbuff wrote: On the schedule, I don't see the point about having 247 and 1029 as two separate trains, especially if 247 runs between HOB and MSU. My point that I'm trying to make is since the Mtc-Btn is diesel west of MSU, and diesels can only use HOB under their own power, just combine both 247 and 1029, which I see is on the proposed plan.

A couple reasons for that.

1029's diesel is already at MSU from 1028.

244 (another train on the chopping block) needs equipment at MSU, so 247 provides it.

You and one other person are the only ones complaining about the cross platform transfer anyway.....so why add two additional equipment moves that are unnecessary?

If 244 and the 102x's go away, then yes, it would make sense to just run a diesel straight through from HOB to Dover.

What I don't understand is the reasoning behind abandoning all midday Boonton service, while trains 851/854 are retained. Can't these two trains be eliminated? Save 873 and have 1024 run thru via the Montclair-Boonton line to Hob to replace 854. This preserves one midday eastbound Boonton line train while achieving the same cost savings (one train, one crew).

Looking at some of the details, I'm really taken aback by them eliminating the off-peak discount for rail. That's pretty bad, because it means the off-peak ticket prices aren't going up by 25%, they're going up by 40%! Just at the times of the day when its *most* convenient to drive too. I love the train, but its hard to justify spending $32 for 2 to go to Manhattan on a weekend when the tunnels are probably no wait (a 42.2% increase in my case!).

Which leads me to a question: single tickets (one way, ORT) don't expire, right? So would it make sense to go and buy a couple hundred bucks worth now, and use them over the next few years? Or is there some rule that would prevent that?

This is the 4th fare increase since 1991. April 2001 10%. July 2005 10%. June 2007 15%. and now, lets call this one 25%. Thats 60% over 19 years, an avg. of 3.15%. Not bad. Or would everyone just prefer each and every July 1 a 3% fare increase. This was long overdue.

Dude $1.70 for a one zone fare (which was only a dollar only 9 years ago) and no more RT off peak round trip discounts is just pure lunacy. If they wanna jack up prices, do it for NYC commuters. Why should the intrastate commuters have to suffer because of those who choose to travel to or work in NYC?