Official Conway Scenic Railroad Thread (CSRR) -2009

Wheel slippage on heavy grades is not uncommon, and the MEC freights used to have the same problem.
The only difference was that none of you Monday morning quarterbacks were around to criticize. And of
course the internet was not available back then to disseminate such info readily.

right.. but they had 50+ fully loaded cars... not 5

Feel free to tell them how to do it better, then. I'm sure they'd love
to here, from an expert, how to solve the problem.

slrr1 wrote:right.. but they had 50+ fully loaded cars... not 5

It doesn't matter if its 1 car or 150 cars the tracks were wet and leaf covered. If you took the time to read you will find that autumn is a tough season for railroads. I read that the MEC use to run the engine light up the notch to try and sand down the tracks then go back and pick up the train the CSRX doesn't have that luxury. Rudy is a retired B&M engineer with many years of experience, I'm sure he did the best he could to keep the train rolling.

I wonder how difficult it would be to mount some kind of rotary sweeper brush (kinda like a street sweeper but smaller) on the front of one of their MOW pick up trucks. They could "run the line" a few minutes ahead of the Notch train and "sweep" the rails of anything that would cause problems.

They are called sweeps. and they are on most speeders.. that said, Hi-rail wheel is somewhat similar a concept to a speeder, I'm sure it could be done to a hi-rail wheel. (PS; is it hi-rail, or hy-rail?)

The following post of mine was originally in this thread but moved inappropriately to a totally unrelated thread. I repost it here again:

Wet leaves on rail in the autumn is a severe problem for railroads not only in N.A. but also in the U.K.. In fact when I went to the web to find some info to post here, I was overwhelmed by how much there is. There is even a whole entry in Wiki devoted to the issue, entitled, appropriately enough, "Slippery Rail". It affects both freight and passenger, and is perhaps most problematic for passenger/commuter operations due to the higher speeds, crucial stopping distances involved, and signal faults (due to the unwanted "insulation" the leaves cause between wheels and rails) not to mention an observant, impatient public. One engineer on the web wrote he saves his vacation time and extra days off for this time of the year just so he doesn't have to deal with the problem! In addition to the operating difficulties, it also causes severe and expensive mechanical damage, mostly flat spots from sliding wheels. Also, it's not just the first train over the leaves that has to deal with it. Apparently after the first wheels crush the wet leaves, they are not gone. Instead it leaves a hard slippery residue that is very hard to remove, one source equating it to Teflon! I was surprised that traditional sanding is not a cure-all either. Some rail companies utilize special equipment meant to "blast" the residue away. Thus, though nobody except the grouch mentioned on the Saturday trip has implied as such, CSRR's problems are not caused by faulty equipment or operators. Just a seasonal problem that makes trains even more difficult to operate than most people realize.
-Alan S.

At least Conway Scenic is operating trains and trains through Crawford Notch. Without Conway Scenic or Dwight Smith there would be no trains at all on the Mountain Division or the Conway Branch. So as long as there's a train running on the rails I'm not gonna complain about a little wheel slippage. And as far as the two locomotive 5 cars thing; The Conway Scenic has two FP-9s built in the 1950's. The MEC had U-boats signifiganlty heavier, newer, and more powerful than the sisters. Like I said I'm not complaining and I think as long as there's a train and you're a rail fan then you really shouldn't be complaining. When there's not train, thats the time to complain.

One of the problems with sweeps is that they raise and lower on a pivoting pin. They can't be
lowered and locked into place because they must be able to lift when they hit an uneven spot,
so they don't rip off. Also they do wear. Thus, the device may ride right over a wet leaf (or
several) stuck flat to the rail. Besides, on a rainy or windy day, a 20 or 30 minute lead time
between track car and train would result in plenty of leaves falling behind the hyrail. And you
wouldn't want to run with any less separation in case of a mechanical problem or delay of the
track car.

Ok....Good point. I was just trying to "think outside the box" and thought my suggestion was a pretty simple solution. I work for the USAF on Fighter Jets and we use "rotary sweepers" to FOD sweep the flight line and taxi-ways to prevent our jets from sucking up any foreign objects ie. small rocks or anything that the wind or rain may wash out onto the concrete. I thought a simple rotary brush, steel wire brush, mounted on the front or back of a hi-rail pickup would be able to simply brush off the rails. it may not be perfect, but I'm sure that it would help. Ok.... I go back to fixing jets and leave the railroad business to the railroad guys.

Who would have thought CSRR would get so much criticism for running a tripple-header on the notch? Perhaps sand would wear heavily on the wheels...

b&m 1566 wrote:

slrr1 wrote:right.. but they had 50+ fully loaded cars... not 5

It doesn't matter if its 1 car or 150 cars the tracks were wet and leaf covered. If you took the time to read you will find that autumn is a tough season for railroads. I read that the MEC use to run the engine light up the notch to try and sand down the tracks then go back and pick up the train the CSRX doesn't have that luxury. Rudy is a retired B&M engineer with many years of experience, I'm sure he did the best he could to keep the train rolling.

I have seen them run the engine up light through the notch on wet fall nights. Quite a show. They would often have 6 units on the front and two helpers on the back that would get added on at Bartlett. It was always cool to wait at Bartlett and see them do the brake check and then add the helpers on. I once rode up and back in a helper engine and it was a cool experience. So, yeah wheel slippage was always a possibility up there. Those tracks are steep!

The report about the railroad setting fire near where I is living took place at two-forty-five on Saturday afternoon acording to my neighbor who by the way has a scanner. Get yourself a newspaper and you can read all about it or go down to the fire station and they'll tell you as well. Seems a few years ago one of your engines lit fires all up and down this line and all over the place as well. The Fire chief sent your boss man a huge bill if I remember correct. That's a poor way to keep leaves off the tracks by burning down the town. Warning horn's one thing, setting fires something else.

Let 's all pay attention. railroads put sanders on their locomotives for one reason and that's to maintain traction on slippery rail regardless of what may be covering them, rain, frost, snow, ice, grease, oil, leaves, grass,weeds or dead chipmunks. From #7470 to U Boats, #573 and all their F units all Conway Scenics locomotives came equiped with them when they were built. D/E units come equiped with traction motor slip warning lights that warn the engineer of wheel slippage and the need to apply sand. Yes, I know Rudy Hood is a fine engineer, his experience plying the rails for the B&M RR remain unsurpassed by any of us at CSRR. One problem, if only our equipment was maintained properly and real sand and I mean the correct grade of sand was purchased, stored properly and the equipment used to apply this sand worked like it should there wouldn't be the need to have all this extra power to handle 5 cars with a few passengers riding in them. You're right " cogger " MEC used to use as many as 6 units up front and 2 pushing at the rear to get a westbound up through the notch. There's one problem with what you stated, and " slrr " hit it right on the money. Conway Scenic isn't moving heavy tonnage, five coaches is not fifty+ loaded freight cars. I don't know of any railroad that goes running around with leaf blowers on the lead unit. I'd wager that PanAms sanders work better than ours do. Like everything else if stuff isn't fixed right or don't work right at all then when you need it most, it will let you down every time. I could see if the leaves that happen to fall over the rails were from one of those Elephant trees with leaves the size of seat cushions but they are not. I can't picture PanAm, CSX, Amtrak crying they can't make a schedule because a few leaves were on the rail. That's crazy!