All Things Empire Builder

I'm a new member here after lurking a few weeks.

If you are leaving next week here is what was posted today on another forum:

The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.

What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

I leave e/b on April 29 and hope it will be sorted out by then.

BNSF is monitoring the flooding and is still running trains on their main route via New Rockford, albeit with some water over the rail. Amazingly, the eastbound Empire Builder Monday evening out of Minot used its normal route through Grand Forks, but the high water was such that the westbound train operated via New Rockford. With temperatures in the 60s, all the snow is going to melt, so I would think the next couple of days will be critical. I would look for at least the route through New Rockford being open in time for your trip, and slow track will make you late.

I was on the way to the station when amtrak called to tell me that the train was annulled. I was crushed. so now I fly, which I hate, and which was more expensive last minute as well, even on Southwest. It looks like the cascades has some problem as well, and given that we had only a 50 minute connection in SEA I don't know that we would have made it even if the EB had been running.

So now my boy and I will take a trip down to San Francisco this summer instead.

Again I note:

Center to Center All-Weather Service - New Haven

Your Trip is Weatherproof, When You Go Lackawanna - DL&W

icgsteve if you can get to PDX by about 2PM today you can get the Coast Starlight to SAC and the CZ from SAC to CHI.
If you want to hit San Fran you could do that too. If you manage to get to Chicago, you probably could ride the EB on the return trip. Spring is risky with rapidly melting snow.

I noticed something in this document
http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/ARRA/Amtrak-A ... -FY-09.pdf

Capitol Limited Route (will replace the Diner-Lounge Cars which will go on the Empire Builder Route): 3 Superliner I Diners (38017, 38026 and 38031)
@ $.970m; 1 Superliner II Diner (38049) @ $1.055m.

Obviously they probably won't be replacing the Lounge or Diner cars, so does this mean the unneeded 37000 cars would be equivalent to the Pacific Parlours?

I think this has been discussed elsewhere on the board. The consensus is that moving the Diner-Lounges to the EB will be necessary if they add an additional sleeper line (also from the stimulus funds); there isn't enough food service capacity with the current consist plus a sleeper. Adding the Diner-Lounge would also allow them to improve food service on the Spokane-Portland leg.

Ahh makes sense. So three options for food? Or just an extra unstaffed lounge until it is needed on the segment.

presumably, full diner and full lounge to Seattle, Diner/Lounge to Portland.

By the way, the diner is maxed out already with the 3 sleepers + 4 rooms in the dorm and 4 (5east of MSP) coaches.. they could use the car without adding another sleeper car line.

starlight has always had the same 'maxed-out' diner problem. With 3 sleepers they have a tough time feeding the coach passengers and if 4 coaches and a heavy load, sometimes they only offer meals in a bag to be brought to coach seats. Diner capacity is reportedly why they never run a 4th sleeper, even if there is demand.

The Superliner Diner Lounge moving to some portion of the Empire Builder (Portland-Spokane) or for the entire route is largely undefined at this point by Amtrak. So we can speculate all we want, but we won't know till Amtrak comes out with an operating plan - year round for this train to boot! It runs with its three sleepers in peaks season and then goes back to running with just two sleepers in off peak season. What will happen to the Superliner Diner-Lounge then? Since the Empire Builder train set has Seattle bound sleeper(s) on the front and Portland bound sleeper(s) on the back with coaches and service cars in between, it may be difficult to make the Superliner Diner Lounge into a "Parlour Car" east of Spokane when the train is at its height - and assuming the Superliner Diner Lounge will be a running all the way to Chicago. It would be *nice* to have a Parlour Car of sorts on the Empire Builder route (using the Superliner Diner-Lounge), but positioning and operation may create issues - nothing that couldn't be completely overcome though. Whether they add another sleeper to this train as part of the overall wreck-rebuild of various Superliner will also be interesting - that is a fourth sleeper.

When the Empire Builder was first re-launched it stuck to the 3 sleepers year-round. But this past couple of season, it reverted back to just having two sleepers. Perhaps the "additional sleeper" for the Empire Builder will just ensure that this train has 3 sleepers year-round? Or as someone else has delved into the document more - are they just rebuilding the wreck-repair sleepers to an "Empire Builder" standard, not necssarily bound for the Empire Builder.

Again, until the Capitol Limited gets back its full Superliner Diners and more wreck-rebuild Superliner start coming off the line, we will hopefully see more clearly where Amtrak plans on putting these cars - and the Superliner Diner Lounges, extra Amfleet coaches, Amfleet Diner Lites and the like.

The current Empire Builder carries either two or three sleepers depending upon whether it's the peek or off peek times of the year. The cut-off car (coach - between MSP and CHI) is used when needed (usually weekends) but not daily.

I know from personal experience, that a "full" EB often runs out of food, or at least some menu items, on the final leg of the return run from MSP to CHI, sometimes limiting access to the dining car to just sleeping car passengers. It's a storage issue - why they can't stock up on the western turn, I don't know. A CCC car on a peek run would roughly double the food storage capacity, and hopefully bring this problem to an end. I think you could easily feed more mouths if you had the food storage capacity.

Building from the previous post of dining options and how the Diner is often crowded or runs out of food on the Empire Builder.....

Take the Coast Starlight's Pacific Parlor Car. It offers sleeping passengers in three sleepers (plus the Trans Dorm Sleeper revenue space) an alternative breakfast, lunch and dinner menu. Don't you think the Pacific Parlor Car on the Coast Starlight is helping to relieve the often crowded Superliner Diner? Couldn't the Superliner Diner-Lounge, operating in similar fashion do the same on the Empire Builder, perhaps even more so?

The same could be done if the Superliner Diner-Lounge was run from Portland all the way to Chicago on the Empire Builder. However, the Superliner Diner-Lounge has some draw backs if it was used like the Pacific Parlor Car on the Coast Starlight. It doesn't offer the best "lounge space" due to 1) configuration of the seating -seating should face out towards the windows, and 2) somewhat smaller windows and lack of wrap-around windows. But would it best be used as a Parlor Car for sleeping car passengers, offering that extra food alternative like the Coast Starlight's Parlor Car, the wine and cheese tasting and extra space for sleeping car passengers when the Superliner Sightseer Lounge becomes full. Mixing the Superliner Diner-Lounge with the Superliner Sightseer Lounge/Cafe and Superliner Diner may cause some confusion. But how to arrange the consist of the Empire Builder so it is aligned at least with the sleepers? Put it next to the Portland sleeper? Not the expert here on that one.

In all honesty, the Pacific Parlor Car on the Coast Starlight largely gets its stock from the adjoining Diner, but it is loaded onboard at either LA or Seattle. Then it is largely just "warmed up" using the Pacific Parlor Car's steam tables it has in an "enclosed area" near the booth seating. I could see the same type of arrangement emerging from the Superliner Diner-Lounge. There's no excuse for the Empire Builder to run out of food - and I know it can!

However, I'll miss the Superliner Sightseer Car along the Columbia River in extended summer daylight hours is this is a nice treat. This won't be as nice with a Superliner Diner-Lounge.

Hopefully there is more to come with the Empire Builder as we see more Superliner cars come into service with the stimulus money.

How many sleepers go to Portland ???
I would think more than one service car would be a bit much on this section . Unless some seats were sold as revenue seats as well .

David Benton wrote:How many sleepers go to Portland ???
I would think more than one service car would be a bit much on this section . Unless some seats were sold as revenue seats as well .

One sleeper and at least two coaches go to Portland now, along with a Superliner Sightseer Lounge, that acts as the "food service" car for the Empire Builder on the Spokane-Portland run. The Seattle-Spokane Empire Builder section does not have a Superliner Sightseer Car - just a Diner, where you can also purchase snacks (it offers some food and begerages to compromise since it doesn't have a "cafe" car that would be on the Portland section of the train. Then east of Spokane the train runs with it's normal consist in peak season of two Seattle Sleepers, Diner, Seattle coaches, Sightseer Lounge, Portland coaches and Portland sleeper. Train gets packed in the summer peak season and getting a seat in the Sightseer Lounge Car comes at a premium!