UTU and National Carriers' Tentative agreement.

Burner wrote:

BigMike wrote:If new guys arent bumped to 100% Im voting NO and I suggest you other 80-90% guys do the same!

I'm currently at 80% and I simply dont think we will get a bett contract by holding out...

We are getting 17%, increase in AFHT meals, and COLA between Jul 1 09 and whenever they sign the new contract...

I for one am going to vote yes and let the Mediation board have a crack at the pay rates. Remember you knew what the pay was before you started. And this is still THE best paying job I have EVER had.

Dude, what good is COLA when we have to pay it back? Wow, we get to keep the COLA, but we have to pay back the previous years COLA on our expired contract.

Yes, I did know what the pay was before I started. I just didn't know that I had to pay part of it back to the RR.

Also, that 17% is over the life of the contract, so don't think that if the contract passes, that you'll have a 17% raise the next day.

I'm voting no, and I hope that it doesn't pass so that the UTU will wake up and realize that we aren't happy with them and that they are not doing as good a job as they think they are. If you visit the UTU website and read some of their garbage, you would believe that they sit at the right hand of the Lord. Just my opinion.

Speaking with my local rep. this evening I wouldn't be surprised if it does get shot down by the members. Neither of us has yet to hear from anyone who is in favor of the new contract. We've yet to receive an official copy of it though.

I think the contract is crap. I am a new guy and this is my first "relationship" with the UTU. I feel I have been lied to and their rhetoric that is being spewed is just trying to get everyone frightened so they will vote yes. Think about this. The next time you get you paperwork and you have to pull ten cars you call the yardmaster and tell them that you are only going to pull 8. Of course they would be quite upset, but you are the new man, not enough experience, so you should only be expected to do 80% of what a 5+ year conductor can do. I bet if we only did 80% of the work they would have a problem with it.

The carriers are making recod profits. The CEO of NS made something like 3 million + last year. I know numerous trainmasters that are in the triple digits. I think they can afford to pay the newbies 100%. No other industry hires you in at 80%.

Not to mention that as a new guy, the UTU has tried to convince me that the reason we didn't have a contract for so long is becuase they were set on getting the entry rates improved. That is BS. They didn't do a thing. So what it is going to mediation. That doesn't put any money in our pockets. Who knows how ling that is going to take. All that did was buy the carriers a bit more time to hord money away from us. We deserve 100%. Vote NO, I am willing to take my chances with the Bush PEB, maybe the new guys will win for a change.

[quote="musicmarine"]I think the contract is crap. I am a new guy and this is my first "relationship" with the UTU. I feel I have been lied to and their rhetoric that is being spewed is just trying to get everyone frightened so they will vote yes. Think about this. The next time you get you paperwork and you have to pull ten cars you call the yardmaster and tell them that you are only going to pull 8. Of course they would be quite upset, but you are the new man, not enough experience, so you should only be expected to do 80% of what a 5+ year conductor can do. I bet if we only did 80% of the work they would have a problem with it.

The carriers are making recod profits. The CEO of NS made something like 3 million + last year. I know numerous trainmasters that are in the triple digits. I think they can afford to pay the newbies 100%. No other industry hires you in at 80%.

quote]

What if you only paid 80% of your union dues? Funny how it doesn't work like that. You get paid 80% because of the wonderful union, but you still have to pay 100% of their dues.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO VOTE NO AND SEND A MESSAGE BACK TO THE UTU THAT THIS CRAP WONT DO!!!!!!

Are they gonna let you guys vote? Or is it gonna be like everthing with the UTU in the past, G.C. tell the L.C. how its gonna be?

UPRR engineer wrote:Are they gonna let you guys vote? Or is it gonna be like everthing with the UTU in the past, G.C. tell the L.C. how its gonna be?

Sounds like the way the BLE counts ballots where I work. A few pizzas, and a case of beer at the LC's house. That's how all their crappy contracts pass. Then you ask the members and none of them voted for the agreement.

And I won't even delve into their "politburo" style election process...

I think we should all pile on the emails to UTU headquarters and let them know what we think. Inindate the bastards w/ email and phone calls. Maybe they will get the picture.

musicmarine wrote:I think we should all pile on the emails to UTU headquarters and let them know what we think. Inindate the bastards w/ email and phone calls. Maybe they will get the picture.

Good Idea!

BigWeb wrote:Dude, what good is COLA when we have to pay it back? Wow, we get to keep the COLA, but we have to pay back the previous years COLA on our expired contract.

Yes, I did know what the pay was before I started. I just didn't know that I had to pay part of it back to the RR.

Also, that 17% is over the life of the contract, so don't think that if the contract passes, that you'll have a 17% raise the next day.

I'm voting no, and I hope that it doesn't pass so that the UTU will wake up and realize that we aren't happy with them and that they are not doing as good a job as they think they are. If you visit the UTU website and read some of their garbage, you would believe that they sit at the right hand of the Lord. Just my opinion.

mmmmkay... Calm down a bit, I'm not quite down to your intelligence level.

It is better than nothing, COLA helps protect us from random things like inflation WHILE THE CONTRACT IS IN NEGOTIATION. It is an interest free loan, NOT a pay increase.

Find me one time in recent contracts where the company agreed to 17%? Yes I understand that it is over the life of the contract. I for one ACTUALLY read the entire thing.

Face it... The BLE and other unions have screwed us, and we are not going to get anything better than the bargaining coallition got. They are simply not going to let us have it. They complained for years that the UTU was screwing everbody else by agreeing first and they couldnt do any better.

I think it is better to send one part of the contract to mediation than the whole contract and get screwed royally on the entire thing.

When we go to congress and say that we were offered more than everybody else was and we still refused so we could have even more then we just look greedy and it will make the NCCC look innocent in the entire situaution.

I would rather sign this contract and focus on getting this SMART Merger killed.

No the new guy is not going up to 100% right away... boo hoo, I'm at 80% and I dont like it any more than you do. Join the BLE if you only wanna pay 80% dues.

What do you actually think you are going to get by holding out. We have held out for almost 4 years already. the company doest care because we cant strike. We can hold our breath all day but in the end we just end up blue in the face.


EDIT: http://seekingalpha.com/article/48416-g ... o-tier-pay

The UAW Negotiated a tiered pay system with new people starting at roughly Fifty Percent of the full rate

thebigc wrote:

UPRR engineer wrote:Are they gonna let you guys vote? Or is it gonna be like everthing with the UTU in the past, G.C. tell the L.C. how its gonna be?

Sounds like the way the BLE counts ballots where I work. A few pizzas, and a case of beer at the LC's house. That's how all their crappy contracts pass. Then you ask the members and none of them voted for the agreement.

And I won't even delve into their "politburo" style election process...

Might be that way there...

gp80mac wrote:
Sorry, more of the same old crap. If they want real progress - lets get ONE union.

Sorry - I can't agree. As someone who got hosed in the BLE contract, give away the COLAs just when we need them...I can't agree.

When was REAL PROGRESS made for rail labor? When there were all the little craft unions, the Brotherhood of Firemen, the brakeman's union, conductor's union, all that. Yes, there was inequity...but the general direction was UPWARD.

When did progress STOP? About the time most of the craft unions were merged into the "Useless Transportation Union."

Competition gives choices, which leads to more competition and a premium on performance. Right now we have a choice of two unions - both of them in bed with the carrier.

...Oh, how much easier it would be to have only ONE L.C. and Local President to bribe with desk jobs and make-whole and favors for a few close buds...

No. Like with a big bank or cable monopoly, the bigger they get, the smaller you are, and the less you matter.

musicmarine wrote:I think we should all pile on the emails to UTU headquarters and let them know what we think. Inindate the bastards w/ email and phone calls. Maybe they will get the picture.

Yes, because that will make them change their minds and go back to the bargaining table....

lol whatever...

the UTU's spam filter probably filters out messages from members... they just dont give a shit what we have to say.


BigMike: Finally found some support for your "crusade" huh? Got tired of rational minds shooting down all of your information over at yardlimits huh?

BigMike: Finally found some support for your "crusade" huh? Got tired of rational minds shooting down all of your information over at yardlimits huh?


Oh there are more guys on both forums that feel this way they are just gettin tired of the older guys shooting them down. You will see come votin time.

So I suppose that just because they don't seem to listen and haven't ever listened we should just roll over and give up. That is a real good way to give the company what they want. Thought the UTU was supposed to be a BROTHERHOOD, ha! That is the joke, the older guys could care less about what the new hires are getting because it doesn't affect them. How many of the old heads had to work for 80% when they hired on. Or haw many of them have to try and make ends meet on 500 dollars a week (before taxes and RRR) none......they had to work 300 shifts as a brakeman and got paid for it. So until you can tell me how to make it on 861 every half for six months and then be happy to get 80%, Don't profess how this contract is OK without actually addressing entry rates and not just giving them away to arbitration. The UTU point blank lied to the new hires by telling them they were holding out on this contract for entry rates.