Pan Am / Guilford Bashing

toolmaker wrote:This terrible condition must be doing damage to shorten the wheel life on the rolling stock and locomotives.

Definately not good for the profile of the wheel tread. CSXT will grind rail that looks perfect to the naked eye, so I can imagine how bad this PAR rail is when you can actually see all these flaws.

roberttosh wrote:

toolmaker wrote:This terrible condition must be doing damage to shorten the wheel life on the rolling stock and locomotives.

Definately not good for the profile of the wheel tread. CSXT will grind rail that looks perfect to the naked eye, so I can imagine how bad this PAR rail is when you can actually see all these flaws.

In Mass., just go to the CSX Boston Line and compare. Recently on a trip down there to Palmer, the mainline and controlled siding had just been grinded. Not to mention the whole eastbound main through their was re-tied. There's nothing like the sound of autoracks or piggyback TOFCs rolling over freshly grinded railheads! There is also no such thing as pancaked rails on that main. It's a shame because much of the PAR artery is welded rail that could be the same way. Instead, PAR pisses away the money on other crap like having to rebuild their road power every freakin time they turn around. I laugh everytime I see the Q426s and Q427s rolling along CSX iron instead of PAR's, but it's still a damn shame it has to be this way.

In the late 70's the railroad was having a major derailment almost every week. The standard joke back then was that the B&M would end up with a totally rebuilt mainline from all the derailment track repairs. It took a $20m federal loan to get the Fitchburg Route rebuilt. No one was calling the B&M mighty then. Well maube mighty bad

The Boston Line may be in good shape, but overall, CSX isn't a great benchmark when it comes to track maintenance. If you compare the number of CSX derailments with the other Class I carriers, CSX doesn't look so good. Say what you want about NS, but they really know how to maintain their tracks.

At least PAR knows that derailing at 10 MPH is a lot safer than derailing at 40... hence they keep their track speeds to a minimum.

MEC407 wrote:The Boston Line may be in good shape, but overall, CSX isn't a great benchmark when it comes to track maintenance. If you compare the number of CSX derailments with the other Class I carriers, CSX doesn't look so good. Say what you want about NS, but they really know how to maintain their tracks.

At least PAR knows that derailing at 10 MPH is a lot safer than derailing at 40... hence they keep their track speeds to a minimum.

I know you've got a seceret hatred for CSX( ), but when you have to compare 10mph average with 40-55mph, there IS no comparison. Your PAR trains are running on there too. Imagine if PAR tried running the same amount of trains on the B&M as CSX does on the Selkirk Branch or B&A! Sure, CSX has had their share of derailments lately, but during the quiet times, they run about 100 times the amount of trains through those two parts of the system than PAR does total. It averages out, but CSX doesn't come close to what Conrail did for MOW work. I've got nothing to say about NS, never have. I just wish they would buy PAR and do the world a favor!

GTI will never be competitive with the infrastructure they currently have, but they don't choose to be. They obviously are happy turning whatever small profit they do, and choose not to put anything back in to preserve the bottom line.

On the railroad the welded rail that is still left is called "Bankruptcy Rail" or "1980 RAIL". All the CWL was installed a few years prior to GTI taking over.

What is left of this rail is pretty shot. On curves the outer rails are razer thing and the inner rails are pancaked. The straight sections have defects and pieces flaking off so it feels like you're driving on stone in the bad spots.

In many areas you have mixed CWR and stick rail, where the real bad CWL was replaced by the old neighboring east or westbound mainline that is gone (see Charlemont, Pownal, West Deerfield).

That said, CSX has an aweful record recently of bad derailments, but you can't compare their track to Guilford's. NS takes the cake for track maintenance.

What's sad is that it isn't that they don't have the know how, just not the means to build nice track. Alls you have to do is look at how good the Western Route looks up in NH and Maine and you can see that the MoW dept knows how to build a railroad. The fact that they're seemingly spending more money up on the former MEC just adds more fuel to the fire that they are looking to sell the Fitchburg to the NS - hence no reason to maintain..

roberttosh wrote:What's sad is that it isn't that they don't have the know how, just not the means to build nice track. Alls you have to do is look at how good the Western Route looks up in NH and Maine and you can see that the MoW dept knows how to build a railroad. The fact that they're seemingly spending more money up on the former MEC just adds more fuel to the fire that they are looking to sell the Fitchburg to the NS - hence no reason to maintain..

I would be extremely surprised if Guilford opted to sell only a portion of the system, especially the section with the most traffic. But, who knows with them. I'm just holding out for the MMA to take over the old MEC

emd_16645 wrote:I would be extremely surprised if Guilford opted to sell only a portion of the system, especially the section with the most traffic. But, who knows with them. I'm just holding out for the MMA to take over the old MEC

PAR and NS have been discussing the sale of the B&M side for a couple years now. The former B&M is worth a lot more to a class one like the NS that could build up serious Intermodal and Auto traffic vs a regional like PAR. PAR could then pull back to running the former MEC which is still a profitable piece of railroad with all the mills - heck they may even have the engines to service that size line!!

GP9 wrote:In the late 70's the railroad was having a major derailment almost every week. The standard joke back then was that the B&M would end up with a totally rebuilt mainline from all the derailment track repairs. It took a $20m federal loan to get the Fitchburg Route rebuilt. No one was calling the B&M mighty then. Well maube mighty bad

Wrong decade. It was the 60's. By the late 70's the railroad was showing improvements in performance and safety while going through bankruptcy reorganization.

Yup, I believe the 4-R act or whatever it was called gave them all the funds to rebuild the Fitchburg west of Ayer in 1976. By the late 70's things had indeed started to turn around - and then you know who took them over.....

cpf354 wrote:

GP9 wrote:In the late 70's the railroad was having a major derailment almost every week. The standard joke back then was that the B&M would end up with a totally rebuilt mainline from all the derailment track repairs. It took a $20m federal loan to get the Fitchburg Route rebuilt. No one was calling the B&M mighty then. Well maube mighty bad

Wrong decade. It was the 60's. By the late 70's the railroad was showing improvements in performance and safety while going through bankruptcy reorganization.

John Barringer started the resurrection of the B&M in the early 70s. He was followed by Paul Cherington and eventually Alan Dustin. Dustin was the one who saw the B&M make its first new loco orders since the early 60s. Unfortunately, he also had to witness the day when "Mellonhead" purchased the B&M.

As for NS, CP and others rumored to be interested in G's Fitchburg Main, I'll believe it when I see it. It would be great to see CP red, but I think NS would make the most sense for direct competition to CSX. The K-Line contract was originally thought to be a test by NS just to see what level of intermodal could grow along the old B&M artery. The train sizes haven't been bad for MOAY or AYMO. Just bites to see time-sensitive stuff like that treading 10mph though interlockings when you have over a dozen of the same type of trains humming over B&A iron within the same borders. The BM just won't ever see itself fully utilized under PAR control. With CSX supposedly losing Beacon Park Yard, it would seem sneaky yet sensible for PAR, CP, NS or whoever to look at regaining a back-door entry into Boston or the surrounding area. For now, PAR rail conditions will suck pond water and trains will crawl to their destinations.

With NS' strong Intermodal and Auto franchises (they handle more units than CSXT in both cases), I have no doubt that they could double or triple the Intermodal business that currently moves over the former B&M. They would almost certainly capture some of the Auto business now moving over CSXT as well. I know for a fact that the NS and PAR have had very high level meetings regarding sale of the former B&M and offers have actually been made. Who knows if it will ever happen, but if it does, expect NS to really upgrade the line and for them to go head to head with CSXT.

I, for one, hope that it happens. I know there are many of you who shudder at the thought of seeing nothing but black Dash 9s all the time... but from an economic development standpoint, it's just sad to see a great resource like the railroad piddled away, further eroding the industrial base of New England.

That said, I certainly won't hold my breath.

MEC407 wrote:I, for one, hope that it happens. I know there are many of you who shudder at the thought of seeing nothing but black Dash 9s all the time... but from an economic development standpoint, it's just sad to see a great resource like the railroad piddled away, further eroding the industrial base of New England.

That said, I certainly won't hold my breath.

DITTO