Pan Am / Guilford Bashing

I'm sure they figured using a semi-popular/well known name would somehow magically get people to trust them or believe they will get better service. Plus, they probably want to do something with the name they paid for.

Most companies, when they buy a 'good' name try to 'turn over a new leaf' if they have to. I don't think anyone has been able to find anything different in the way Guilford operates now that they are PanAm.

newpylong wrote:I'm sure they figured using a semi-popular/well known name would somehow magically get people to trust them or believe they will get better service. Plus, they probably want to do something with the name they paid for.

I don't know if it had anything to do with changing their image so much as identifying the company with the airline. Their hopes for the airline didn't come to pass, so now they're in the awkward position of having a brand that relates to a smaller part of their bussiness than the railroad.

Not that I would expect PAR's Fitchburg division to look like CSXT's B&A, but good lord, I was absolutely shocked at how run down their RoW looked out in the Gardner/Athol/Erving area this week. Ratty looking, wobbly, pitted stick rail with low, beat up joints, rotten ties and vegetation at some places completely taking over the track structure. Looked more like a poorly maintained industrail branch line than a once important mainline. Followed a train that took almost 3 hours to go from Erving to Gardner! Now I can see why the NS would need to spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to get this line into even half way decent shape. Am not a track guy, but after looking at this line, would think it would probably be cheaper to just tear everything up and start from scratch. What a way to run a railroad!!

roberttosh wrote:Not that I would expect PAR's Fitchburg division to look like CSXT's B&A, but good lord, I was absolutely shocked at how run down their RoW looked out in the Gardner/Athol/Erving area this week. Ratty looking, wobbly, pitted stick rail with low, beat up joints, rotten ties and vegetation at some places completely taking over the track structure. Looked more like a poorly maintained industrail branch line than a once important mainline. Followed a train that took almost 3 hours to go from Erving to Gardner! Now I can see why the NS would need to spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to get this line into even half way decent shape. Am not a track guy, but after looking at this line, would think it would probably be cheaper to just tear everything up and start from scratch. What a way to run a railroad!!

I was struck by the very same impression when I was out there recently. It really sticks out at you when you go east of Fitchburg on the MBTA maintained portion of the FML, which is now double track CWR. Erving is a pitiful sight, especially with all the brush. Then compare watching a freight crawl by at 10 mph there to watching one at track speed through North Leominster and you just can't help but wonder why they think it's good bussiness to maintain their main line so poorly.

You're right on about the vegetation out in Erving - absolutely unbelievable!!

Up in D1, the tracks aren't in the greatest shape on the main, but they are kept up enough for 25mph, most of the time, and lately they have been putting in the work needed to keep it that way.

roberttosh wrote:Not that I would expect PAR's Fitchburg division to look like CSXT's B&A, but good lord, I was absolutely shocked at how run down their RoW looked out in the Gardner/Athol/Erving area this week. Ratty looking, wobbly, pitted stick rail with low, beat up joints, rotten ties and vegetation at some places completely taking over the track structure. Looked more like a poorly maintained industrail branch line than a once important mainline. Followed a train that took almost 3 hours to go from Erving to Gardner! Now I can see why the NS would need to spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to get this line into even half way decent shape. Am not a track guy, but after looking at this line, would think it would probably be cheaper to just tear everything up and start from scratch. What a way to run a railroad!!

It's really no different anywhere you go on G/PAR, except the MBTA or Downeaster territory. Out in D4 was, and I expect, is still bad as well. So many slow orders, it's unbelievable. Welded mainline rail and all, but terrible shape. The curves so worn from the coal trains, were talking 4" wide, flattened rail heads with chunks of them coming off with each train. Not to mention gauging problems with insane flange squealing. You could watch the rails bounce up and down due to lack of tampering and such. Such a shame that this once-mint main could become so deplorable. I mean, there are intermodals and coal jobs on there all the time. For a while, speed was so bad, one train could barely make the trip between Mohawk and Deerfield with one crew. Sometimes, it didn't happen. We're talking 100 miles to be generous. I could picture this being a serious mainline if the right operation ran it. Personally, I sometimes wish they, PAR, would just give up and liquidate. Put the line out of its misery. My ultimate vision would be someone else buying it outright. However, we know PAR would likely gutt the rail and everything related to it just so nobody else could profit from it.

I have been humbled to an extent lately when I see how bad some of their branches and spurs are in Maine. On the Bucksport line near Orrington, there was such a bad sag in the outside rail, it looked like the next train would just dump over onto Route 15. People are even saying a lot of the main west of Bangor and NMJ is only 10mph. I could definitely see why G/PAR has not made many friends up here. Many of the old timers who were around in B&M and MEC days must want to cry sometimes.

J Bray

I have been humbled to an extent lately when I see how bad some of their branches and spurs are in Maine. On the Bucksport line near Orrington, there was such a bad sag in the outside rail, it looked like the next train would just dump over onto Route 15. People are even saying a lot of the main west of Bangor and NMJ is only 10mph. I could definitely see why G/PAR has not made many friends up here. Many of the old timers who were around in B&M and MEC days must want to cry sometimes.

The entire section between Waterville and Lewiston is 25. There was a slow order earlier this summer east of Readfield, but that is gone.

emd_16645 wrote:The entire section between Waterville and Lewiston is 25.

Soon enough it'll be back down to 10, I'm sure.

MEC407 wrote:

emd_16645 wrote:The entire section between Waterville and Lewiston is 25.

Soon enough it'll be back down to 10, I'm sure.

Likely. If you want to see bad track, check out the Madison branch.

I saw a train stopped just north of the Coal plant in Northampton, Ma on the CT river line. Have the slow orders gotten so bad trains can't move? Yes I know a joke but sad none the less.


I'm sure we all hope someday we'll be talking about what a well run and maintained railroad Guilford/Pan Am is but until then let the bashing continue.


What is the speed limit north of Springfield to Deerfield?

calaisbranch wrote: Welded mainline rail and all, but terrible shape. The curves so worn from the coal trains, were talking 4" wide, flattened rail heads with chunks of them coming off with each train. Not to mention gauging problems with insane flange squealing. You could watch the rails bounce up and down due to lack of tampering and such. Such a shame that this once-mint main could become so deplorable.

I noticed the flattened rail heads too. They call it the ball because it's supposed to be rounded and usually @ 2.5 to 2.75 inches wide, yet much of the rail is as flat as a pancake and an inch or more wider than it should be. You wouldn't believe your eyes if it was rail on any carrier other than PAR. Like you said, the saddest part of all is just how good a shape this line was in before Guilford took over...

superwarp1 wrote:
What is the speed limit north of Springfield to Deerfield?

the entire B&M owned Conn River is 10 MPH outside of two miles in Northampton, which is 25 if you have the balls.

roberttosh wrote:

calaisbranch wrote: Welded mainline rail and all, but terrible shape. The curves so worn from the coal trains, were talking 4" wide, flattened rail heads with chunks of them coming off with each train. Not to mention gauging problems with insane flange squealing. You could watch the rails bounce up and down due to lack of tampering and such. Such a shame that this once-mint main could become so deplorable.

I noticed the flattened rail heads too. They call it the ball because it's supposed to be rounded and usually @ 2.5 to 2.75 inches wide, yet much of the rail is as flat as a pancake and an inch or more wider than it should be. You wouldn't believe your eyes if it was rail on any carrier other than PAR. Like you said, the saddest part of all is just how good a shape this line was in before Guilford took over...

This terrible condition must be doing damage to shorten the wheel life on the rolling stock and locomotives.