Septa's Doomsday Budget 2013-2023

loufah wrote:Fiscal conservatives are often willing to pay for something that everyone is likely to use.

My experience in dealing with some in Montco is that the statement might better read "...willing to pay for something that they are likely to use."

Metcalfe ... seems to be singling out Philadelphia, not the surrounding counties.

Forgive me for having a knee-jerk* reaction, but his joining of "Philadelphia" and "welfare" could easily be construed as an efficient way to pander to a lot of stereotypes.

What do others in Harrisburg say?

I can't speak specifically for transit issues, but my oldest daughter (college major in Government) worked in H'burg as a legislative aide plus I'm pretty well acquainted with our current, very progressive, state senator. Their independent opinions are that at nearly half of the legislators strongly oppose funding for all public services, starting with education and health care. I'd have to assume transit falls in the same camp, although probably farther down the list. As an example one House member told my daughter that education should be handed over entirely to parents and "the churches". A noble sentiment in the days of Little House on the Prairie, but like it or not, utterly impossible today.

(*) Well, as far as Metcalfe is concerned the second word is definitely appropriate.

If the folks in hbg don't like how septa does things, they need to re-organise it so it the people served by current system (and possible future patrons served by expansions) feel they get what they need, and the fiscal conservatives are satisfied that money isn't going down into some bottomless pit in center city.

Alex.... I'll reign it in henceforth.

Bob Casey is trying to help
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/0 ... ing-needs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At 30th Street Station, US Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) said he’ll urge his colleagues to lock in long-term funding for transportation.

25Hz wrote:If the folks in hbg don't like how septa does things, they need to re-organise it so it the people served by current system (and possible future patrons served by expansions) feel they get what they need, and the fiscal conservatives are satisfied that money isn't going down into some bottomless pit in center city.

you know, sometimes you say some nutty things, but you absolutely nailedit with this statement. that is exactly how many rural voters see septa, and philadelphia in general. with notable exceptions, most state level conservatives would fund projects and services and the like if they saw the genuine return on investment. from my perspective, and while i don't exactly share it, i can certainly see their argument about inepta being a bottomless pit of waste and inefficiency,

At least now we know one of the issues the rural legislative members have with SEPTA:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/polit ... __pay.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The entire system held hostage by SEPTA's contract with bus drivers of 234.

From the article:

Rep. Thomas Killion (R., Delaware/Chester) wrote to Roae on Monday: "This is actually a savings to SEPTA. . . . SEPTA saves per employee 40 percent year one, 30 percent year two, 20 percent year three and 10 percent year four."

SEPTA spokeswoman Jerri Williams said, "He had been made aware of the reality, and he (Roae) continues to circulate this."


Beware the Ides of March. 234's contract is up for renewal.............

They should be the last one talking of employee salaries and raises. The way the article explains it. SEPTA gives raises over time in percintiles. Who wants to work 10years until the next raise or something. Times are crazy ya knw. They need to considrr who bring this state the $$$$$...This region should get back what is given twice as much. The treat the area like the stepchild they dont like.

If the areas served by SEPTA left PA, PA would die within 2-3 budgets. The way they kept all of the drilling etc tax exempt will haunt us in 10-15 years' time, i hope that will be reversed sometie before then.

What we have here is a failure to address basic operating needs of a regional transit system. We need bridges to be fixed or replaced. You don't need to give septa's budget money to do that, what you do is fund it directly from the state DOT level. Problem solved.

Then to address things like service intervals and schedules, you get a team together, hammer out a few different schedule options, pick one, and bingo people no longer wait 2 hours for a bus-train connection or 45 for a train-train connection.

And what's wrong with turning shorter trains at jenkintown, wayne junction, north philly, etc...? do we REALLY need to route EVERYTHING though 30th? Running the RRD like a bus system is a problem not a solution.

As i said before, i think SEPTA has outlived its usefulness and needs to be re-organized so there is state level accountability, and on a more personal note, so that my bus to my town is not beholden to the city of philadelphia.

25Hz wrote:As i said before, i think SEPTA has outlived its usefulness and needs to be re-organized so there is state level accountability, and on a more personal note, so that my bus to my town is not beholden to the city of philadelphia.

A broader and equally impossible approach is a tri-state agency to make travel seamless.

sammy2009 wrote:They should be the last one talking of employee salaries and raises. The way the article explains it. SEPTA gives raises over time in percintiles. Who wants to work 10years until the next raise or something.

Why are they even differentiating bus drivers by experience or seniority? Is it a cost-saving move by SEPTA or a request by the union to have senior members get paid more? Why shouldn't drivers be given full salary on day 1, followed by periodic cost-of-living increases?

Clearfield wrote:At least now we know one of the issues the rural legislative members have with SEPTA:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/polit ... __pay.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The entire system held hostage by SEPTA's contract with bus drivers of 234.

From the article:

Rep. Thomas Killion (R., Delaware/Chester) wrote to Roae on Monday: "This is actually a savings to SEPTA. . . . SEPTA saves per employee 40 percent year one, 30 percent year two, 20 percent year three and 10 percent year four."

SEPTA spokeswoman Jerri Williams said, "He had been made aware of the reality, and he (Roae) continues to circulate this."


Beware the Ides of March. 234's contract is up for renewal.............

I wouldn't exactly call Killion's district (wedged between Media and Westtown) rural anymore.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/leg ... fm?id=1011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

motor

motor, I'm too lazy to read the article again, but it seems so are you
If I remember correctly the legislator, Rep. Roae, who complained about SEPTA giving 10% raises per year to new employees who start out at 60% of base salary in order to reach parity with the established rate, represents a rural district, and Rep. Killion defends the practice.
And in my opinion there are still many parts of Delaware and Chester counties which are rural.

Patrick Boylan wrote:motor, I'm too lazy to read the article again, but it seems so are you

My post was directed at Clearfield. It was his "rural district" phrase that caught my eye, not the excerpt from the article, so I called Clearfield on the carpet.

And in my opinion there are still many parts of Delaware and Chester counties which are rural.

Looking at (and zooming in with) Google's satellite page, yes you've got some fields and forests in western Delco (plus that horse farm behind Jimmy John's on 202 still exists, which shocks me) , but I guess you and I have different definitions of "rural". "Suburban", I would call the 168th.

Now when I grew up in Boothwyn in the 70s (I still have connections in Delco and Delaware's Brandywine Hundred, though I myself moved out of the DelVal in the mid-'80s but revisit once or twice a year if lucky), a good part of Bethel, Concord, Thornbury (Delco and Chesco), Westtown, Middletown, Edgmont, and Birmingham (now Chadds Ford) townships qualified as rural IMO. There was even a llama farm where Walmart is today in Upper Chi.

motor

motor wrote:My post was directed at Clearfield. It was his "rural district" phrase that caught my eye, not the excerpt from the article, so I called Clearfield on the carpet.

WOW never realized I was on the carpet! Thanks for clarifying.

The facts are that besides Roae, other PA House Republicans say this:

Metcalfe of Butler County:

In an eye-opening email exchange obtained by Capitolwire, an online news service, Metcalfe said mass transit subsidies were "just more welfare."
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harr ... FLlWqv3.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saccone of Washington County:

his constituents and many in the state, “… are fed up with, as they most often say, ‘pouring money down a black hole of inefficiency, patronage and corruption.’
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harr ... FLlWqv3.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm putting the facts where my mouth is, and you don't have the credentials to call me out on any carpet.

Again, if they have a problem with SEPTA, the solution is to come up with a system that works and doesnt shut down, but expands and increases service so riders and revenue increase.

Law of diminishing returns... If you quote low rider numbers as a reason to cut service, what makes you think cutting service won't lead to increased rider losses, only to say "hey we need to cut service because of these low numbers"?

When do we create the supply that the demand needs vs trying a one-size-fits-none approach? This region needs reliable, frequent rail service, peole want that, but somehow it won't come to be under SEPTA.

You know what they say about doing things over and over and expecting different results...........

Perhaps they all should watch that 1988 WHYY program on SEPTA (brought up here earlier) and get it clear that these are the same issues 25 years later.