Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Hi Bigt,

Here is a pic of a slug. No prime mover, so the air intakes are covered over. Probably heavily ballested
to increase weight, but the traction motors are still in use. It's mated with another powered locomotive,
naturally.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 73&nseq=10

Charlie

I've seen a couple of GP30 slugs around Watertown in the past. They were painted all gray.

I understand it's kind of nice running from the slug cab - nice and quiet.

They don't seem to do much switching at all in Massena these days. When I do see them doing something there, it's just with road power at the rear or front of the train depending on what direction they're going. So I doubt any remote control operation is involved and I've never seen a man on the ground that appeared to be operating anything next to any movements.

Conrail stationed a switcher there and CSX had one there for a while around half a decade ago. So perhaps it has happened in the past. But i don't even see them using Geeps over there to do anything (If I'm waiting at the crossing while they're going back and forth doing work at the yard, it's always 6 axle power being used) and I really doubt that things like ES44AC's would be equipped for remote control operation.

I suspect if there is any remote control operation in Massena, it's on the Massena Terminal Railroad serving Alcoa's West plant.

About 1993 a GP30 slug came through on the coal train for the Solvay steam plant and the crew let me check it out.

Inside the long hood is a huge concrete slug, about the length of the diesel engine and filling the hood nearly to the top.

Thanks for the photo. That appears to be what is stationed in Massena. I was
not able to get the engine numbers. I have not seen the local to Canton in ages,
but, I have been told by a few that it looks like a "push / pull" operation on the
way back to Massena. Can anyone elaborate?

I haven't seen a GP30 road slug in about a year up here but they do make appearances.

The local to Canton is a nightime operation these days and always has two Geeps. Hard to tell if one is a slug after dark since they really fly when they're light or just have a handful of cars. You don't get much of a chance to check details at 40 or 45mph. When it was typically done during the daytime though, it was a locomotive/slug set and not two locomotives. I'll try to keep a close eye out the next opportunity I have to catch it (Last time was about a week ago).

I haven't personally gotten out and taken a look, but the last word in this thread many months ago when the small derailment happened by the Canton depot was that the track they used to runaround at was still disconnected. So perhaps that might be why they're using two locomotives and doing a push/pull operation. Don't know what it gains them though since when they're taking loads there the locomotives are at the head end of the train. Wouldn't they have to leave one at the rear so they could set it out on the mainaline before dropping off their loads and picking up empties so they could use it to lead back to Massena?

The runaround track in Canton is gone. They never replaced / repaired the "north"
switch - closest to the old station. I'm not sure about the "south" switch (closest to
the Buck Street crossing). In the PC and early Conrail days, the local ran with a caboose
and they would take the entire train "downtown" to this track. The crew would usually
go to lunch then after parking in the runaround. Often, in PC days, they would stay there
and make their meet with the daily big train from Dewitt, or, the ALCOA unit train, if the
timing was close. It does not seem cost effective, at least to me, to be operating two
locos for a small local? Also, how many crewmen on a local now?

I believe all the jobs run two men now except where remotes are in use.

The slug lets a 3000-HP GP40-2 be more effective in switching service, giving both a cab at the other end and dividng up the power among more traction motors. Crews I spoke to in the past preferred a GP38 pair over GP40s because the 40 was "more silppery" IE more likely to spin the wheels. Hooked to a slug it's more like having a pair of 1500 HP units. (they said the same thing when Conrail played with replacing B23-7 pairs with single B36-7s, too).

And the power a local draws depends on what kind of work it may have to handle, what's available, and in some instances they use a second engine on the rear to eliminate any need for runaround moves. The big guys learned from watching the shortlines do all this stuff -

Thanks for that info. Times have really changed.....just does not seem like "railroading" anymore.
I get a real kick seeing everyone nowadays running around with enough flourescent yellow / green
crap on that they look like a construction flagman playing in traffic!

I too have heard that before about "slippery" units. I remember in PC days the crew on the Canton Local
used an ALCO RS-32, sometimes two if tonnage required. Every now and then, the unit(s) would be
downstate for inspection/maintenance, and, they would end-up with a regular road unit. I remember
one day when they had a U28 - I forget now if it was a "B" or a "C" truck - and it was hated the entire
trip. It was "slippery" and had a bad turbo. Plus, it was raining that day and there was not a window
in that cab that did not leak!

Couldn't of been any worse than the NYC days a few years earlier. From the pictures I've seen over the years, Alco S series switchers were pretty much standard local power during the 50's and 60's up here. And from what I've read the ride on those at any speed beyond 10-15mph was rough at best. Particularly the S1 and S2's with Alco blunt trucks.

During the 1990's it seemed like Conrail's 1900 series B23-7's were near universal local power up here. Anyone know what would've been common in the 1980's? Rebuilt GP7's and GP9's perhaps?

We may begin seeing an increase in the amount of containers moving on Q152/Q153 in the coming months, effective in early March, CSX opened new shipping lanes between the Montreal (Beauharnois) terminal and terminals in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, North Baltimore (OH), Louisville, East St. Louis, Kansas City, and Chicago, previously the only shipping lanes were to Philadelphia and Newark as well as limited service to Chicago. Hapag-Lloyd has also switched their Montreal to Philly service to CSX, I believe this traffic had been moving over CP via the D&H.

Leo,
I remember for what seemed like a very short time the crews were using the rebuilt Geeps.
I think they were called GP-8s if they were rebuilt GP-7s, and, GP-10's if they were rebuilt GP-9s.
I may be wrong on that. I do recall that they were nice to look at and the few crewmembers I
spoke with thought highly of them. Seems like they might have had a "star" under the cab
number? Not sure why they did not last up here, or, where they went afterwards.

The Montreal to Philadelphia Hapaq Lloyd and Hamburg Sud Container business that used to run on a CP/D&H routing, fell into CSX's hands by default. CP's new CEO (E. Hunter Harrison) deemed the Philadelphia operations not profitable enough for CP and they have pulled out of South Philadelphia. CP no longer serves the Port of Philadelphia and has shuttered all of their facilities in the area.

Neither Hamburg Sud nor Hapaq Lloyd neccessarily wanted to make the change, as CSX is over a full day slower than the CP routing from Montreal to South Philadelphia. So yes I would not be surprised if Q152/153 see somewhat of an increase from what used to be CP's business to South Philadelphia! God knows the container blocks on Q152/153 can certainly use the extra business! It's been quite often a baretables up and baretables back operation since it started!

Todays southbound Hapag-Lloyd boxes came down in CP well cars.

CSX management told us that they stopped running CN power through, due to the cost. That's why you don't see CNs on Q621/620 any more. CSX has favored GEs for the past 20 plus years and the roster is heavy GE. That's why you see a lot more GEs than EMDs. Over 700 GE Evolutions have been added in the past 4 years alone. After split date, the Conrail units entered the general pool, and were scattered about the system. The CR units had a few better applications such as chairs, toilet setups, and so forth, but CSX power was about the same age as CRs and few differences between the two.(AKA, sour grapes). C40-8s are still used on nearly every type of freight I have had recently, from Q640 to Q158. They are in general service, but occasional defects may keep some as trail only until fixed, but they are utilized as any other 4000 hp GE DC 6 axle engine. They are getting along in years after all. The B-40-8s are the only 4 axle GE power on CSX and they were mostly down rated to 2000hp a couple years ago, and now carry the designation B-20-8. There are no CSX remote operations North of Syracuse. Remote operations are confined to yard classification switching and Hump pull done jobs at Selkirk (and hump sets here only), Syracuse, and Buffalo. The push/pull running is to expedite return running on locals, eliminating excessive runaround moves, and track time (which can be precious on the St.L sub.). 2 man crews are the rule of the day as it has been since I hired on in 2000. The exceptions or appearance of such is most likely conductor trainees/qualifying, or Engineer trainees, which has been numerous the past year and more are being sent this year. Every CSX employee is required to wear the safety vest while working on or near the tracks, regardless of craft. The "Lemon heads" as we refer to them, are 2 year or less employees, required to wear the head cover to increase co-worker awareness, observation, and safety. You can interpret anything you want into that statement. As an older experienced employee, I can be held responsible for their actions.