Need help with this old photo. Cansastota, NY?

For crews, the area from Onieda to Dewitt can be interesting. Quite often, we'll get held at Onieda CP 266 or Canastota CP 270 if Dewitt can not handle our trains. So the area can quickly become a bottle neck. The area also confuses me for the locations of the RR's through here. So to the North there is the Canal, then the NYC mains, the West Shore mains, and the trolly line to the south. Is the West Shore row buried under the current elevated row? And where was the LV crossing?

roadster wrote:The area also confuses me for the locations of the RR's through here. So to the North there is the Canal, then the NYC mains, the West Shore mains, and the trolly line to the south. Is the West Shore row buried under the current elevated row?

Roadster - Based on my observations poking around swamp/woods either side of the ROW last weekend that's how everything was once laid out.

roadster wrote:And where was the LV crossing?

The 1946 topo quad shows the LV crossing between the two overpasses (Main St and Peterborough St) in "downtown" Canastota: http://docs.unh.edu/NY/csta46ne.jpg

Might partially explain why a former LV caboose is perched in front of an ice cream shop near the spot today!

...FB

The LV was long gone by 1946 (abandoned 1933, I think), and it crossed the NYC main east of downtown Canastota (off of the posted map, to the right). It was a north - south track that ended up in Camden. If you drive down Canal Road east from Canastota, across from the Canastota DPW, you can see one of the bridge abutments that carried the LV over the canal. I am not sure what is showing up between Main and Peterboro St's on the map, but I am pretty sure it is not the LV. As for the West Shore, several remnants of the ROW remain in various locations from Veron to Syracuse, all south of the current CSX main.

Roadster, On your next trip east on trk 2 thru Canastota you need to visualize that you are more or less traveling on the very path that once took the LV up and over the NYC for
it's sweep east and then curved north to go to Camden. As you get into town and cross Main St you'll see ( and could spit out your window) on a carwash that occupies the corner
of Main and James St. The carwash is on the ROW of the Westshore and the diamond that the LV crossed on is literally feet from there just east. The LV turned and was elevated
on a timber trestle to slowly rise east and parallel to what was trk 2 back in the day. Of course the Central was at grade until 59' as we know. Railroad St today was the 4 track main
(at least 4-3-1) and 2 in now under roughly where trk 1 is today. Until just recently the stone abutment that the LV ran over going north out of town was clearly visible looking
now to your left. Aprox MP 269. ( the Canastota team track itself a reminent of trk 4, passes right next to it.) The LV hack in question is in what was the yard complex until the last day of operations for the Valley in Canastota Dec 30th 1967. If you look at that grey building that houses the ice cream shop you can still see the sliding warehouse doors that once had LV freight loaded in and out of. The LV north to Camden was abandoned in 1937
There are a number of old Canastota pics around (their Library is a great source) as that little burg was once quite a bustle of RR activity. Hope this helps

jurtz wrote:The LV was long gone by 1946 (abandoned 1933, I think)....

.... I am not sure what is showing up between Main and Peterboro St's on the map, but I am pretty sure it is not the LV....

That's definitely the LV Cortland Branch between Peterboro and Main in Canastota. Follow the line south on the topo where it doglegs west near the Canastota reservoir - it is clearly labeled "Lehigh Valley". (The LV north from Canastota its end at Camden was indeed abandoned by 1946 however.)

Incidentally the last LV train to Canastota ran on December 30, 1967. On page 302 of Robert Archer's "Lehigh Valley Railroad" is a photo of the train crew on the pilot of LV #215, paused in Cazanovia on its final run north to Canastota.

...FB

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=train+st ... 2&hovw=277

In this picture of the Canastota passenger station you can see the LV connector which ran closest to the station (which faces north) . The view here is looking west from the Petersboro St crossing. The Shore ran behind the staion. Roadster runs his trains today right over the roof of this old station. I must clarify the elevation of the LV didn't begin
until is cleared Peterboro, St. Somewhere I know I've seen a picture of this structure.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nymad ... enox17.jpg

In this view looking south ( taken about where the police station is today) you can see the station in all it's glory. Railroad St had a railroad on it in 1906.

By the way, this is the area we're talking about: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.07 ... 96&zoom=13

Interesting map Russ but also very cinfusing. Shows some post LV Canastota PC alignment and also the line to Camden,

I followed the Shore east to Oneida and it doen't show a single siding let alone the fact it was double tracked or many years..

Interesting also that the Westshore to O&W connection is on there even though that was abandond in 1902.

Very good guys, thanks for the detective work. In "Lehigh Valley Facilities, volume 3, Buffalo Division", page 93 shows photos of a LV snowplow wreck on Feb 24, 1958, where a runaway plow flipped and struck the NYC towers stairs and crushed the towermans car. Been tryin to figure out how the LV ran through there. So it came North down from, right near where that old caboose sit today, turned right by the car wash and the RoW is under the grade I operate today, climd a wooden trestle crossed the NYC Mains by the Old bridge abutment site, and headed North. So that NYC tower and photos of the LV wreck must have been where the LV crossed the West Shore (NYC) right behind that car wash. NOW, I understand, and how that brdige abutment came into play too. Thank you again. I'll take a good look see next trip. (by the Police Station, NYC mains, LV, Station and platforms, West Shore) Hey, I'm running on LV row, just 30 feet above it, lol.

Yes you about have it now. Your running those big GE's right thru the second story windows in the station. Watch out for flying glass!!! LoL. The first station picture shows a tower in the background. I asume that is the one protecting the diamond over
the Shore. Interesting that tower being there still in 58. I don't know when passenger service on the Valley ended in Canastota
but I'm sure it was long before 1958. All that structure was doomed in the 59-60 crossing elimination project . You know
after leaving Canastota east you swing on a gentle curve aproaching the lights at 268. Picture now no curve and your heading
straight into the center of Wampsville (right down Donald Hicks Dew Dr) crossing Court St on your right the Shore is still
close enough to spit on (almost) and the Madison County Court House. You continue east and cross Cowaselon Creek ( the
4 trk bridge is still there), Hubbard place and continue dead straight into Oneida. You wave goodbye to the Shore here as it
swings a bit to the south to go through the south side of Oneida (my hood) crosses the O&W and heads off into Oneida County.
You blast thru Oneida (right smack dab in the middle, over the O&W you go and end up where you meet todays ROW about
where Conley Rd is and you wave goodbye as you go under the NYS T-way. That all happened when I was a little shaver but I
remember it to this day.

Yes, I've seen the row that head straight, knowing that it once went through the City. That's kinda my pation, now looking for the old RoW's and researching what was, where, when and even why. A photo and caption on page 92 of that book shows the LV Cazenovia depot with LV passenger train #325 departing in the late '40's. And that the train came off in 1950. So that was probably the end of LV passenger service up there.

And rt 13 along Cittinengo Creek is one of my favorite HD rides. I never knew how close the LV RoW really was. Those people in the waiting room better duck.

The LV makes a right turn as noted, the ROW is still pretty visible - the LV in Canastota lasted until about 1979 under private ownership with operation contracted to PC, then Conrail. I have some old RR maps of the area, the curve was sharp enough, but got sharper still with the elevation's construction.

You have to remember that when they elevated the NYC main through town, about 1961, they swung it over onto thr former West Shore ROW, more or less, and the old NYC main became a street to the north betweeen the two overpasses "downtown" (and a siding on the east side lasted into CSX, ran up to the old station, heck maybe it's still there? it only saw seasonal use loading onions the last I knew).

Overhead photos (Terraserver Birds-Eye views I looked at a couple years ago) showed that siding and an LV abutment still there, but construction equipment removing fill (in fact they'd buried part of the siding from the looks of it) so who knows if still there. But the LV more or less made an S-curve to cross the NYC via a bridge, after crossing the West Shore at grade; it then crossed the old Erie Canal and one of the abutments for that is still visible from Canal Road.

Line to Camden was abandoned in 1938, but it remained an interchange with the NYC right until the last of it was abandoned in Canastota proper.

And the LV ROW south as far as Cazenovia is hikable as a trail.

The C&C never had motive power but did own a caboose, due to railfan ownership. There is a LV caboose displayed in Cazenovia which MAY have been the LV 95123 (my records conflict about that one). Does anyone know if that caboose used to belong to the C&C?