Phoenixville to Paoli

[Ed Note: This was from the R3 to West Chester thread, but moved into the proposed Phoenixville to Paoli line]

do you know what route was suggested in the light rail plan then?

Suburban Station wrote:do you know what route was suggested in the light rail plan then?

I was thinking that a good route would be to use the existing rails from Phoenixville to Devault, then run some new tracks alongside Rt 29 from Devault southward to the Chester Valley roadbed, then restore the rails on the Chester Valley roadbed from Rt 29 on into Downingtown (where a new station is scheduled to be built at 322).

The line I described would service Phoenixville, all the businesses along Rt 29 in Great Valley, the northside of Frazer, the corporate center near Church Farm School, the Exton Mall, Main Street in Exton (2 stops - 1 at Rt 100, and 1 next to Walmart), a park-and-ride behind the Oaklands Corporate Center in Whitford, and 2 Downingtown stops (Quarry Road, and 322).

There's your high-level plan SEPTA - now get crackin' !

This topic is starting venture too far astray, however some months ago, I did another Google Map of that Phoenixville / Mainline connection.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102558859566429365187.00044e12c800eca2741f3&z=12

AlexC wrote:This topic is starting venture too far astray, however some months ago, I did another Google Map of that Phoenixville / Mainline connection.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102558859566429365187.00044e12c800eca2741f3&z=12

Alex,

I agree that this is veering off the topic of the R3 to West Chester, but:

Your map seems to detail the proposals of a few months ago, but won't the grade from Route 29/Cedar Hollow up into Paoli be too much? Seems better to use the Chester Valley ROW, and rather than loop up to Paoli, shoot for Exton and Downingtown. This would service (in addition to new areas,) a corridor parallel to the R5. Since it's LRV and not commuter rail, there could be more intermediate stops (as I detailed above). Sort of an off-road replacement for the many bus routes currently jamming up Lancaster Ave, Phoenixville Pike, Rt 100, and Rt 29.

Red Arrow Fan wrote: Your map seems to detail the proposals of a few months ago, but won't the grade from Route 29/Cedar Hollow up into Paoli be too much?

apparently they are looking at equipment in use in switzerland to handle the grade.

Red Arrow Fan wrote: Seems better to use the Chester Valley ROW, and rather than loop up to Paoli, shoot for Exton and Downingtown. This would service (in addition to new areas,) a corridor parallel to the R5. Since it's LRV and not commuter rail, there could be more intermediate stops (as I detailed above). Sort of an off-road replacement for the many bus routes currently jamming up Lancaster Ave, Phoenixville Pike, Rt 100, and Rt 29.

I think the reason they want to go to Paoli is that Paoli is SEPTA's largest stop outside Philadelphia and a stop on every Amtrak train (although you wouldn't know it by the looks of the dumpy station). I think it makes a lot of sense to use Paoli because a lot of traffic comes from the east. I doubt many people in Phoenixville are going to take the LRV to downingtown to take the train into Philly. You'll notice of course that most of the bus routes stop in Paoli.

The prospect of Swiss equipment is interesting. The grade up to Paoli station from the Great Valley area is not insignificant.

Remember also that Paoli will (eventually) have a new transportation center built on the old rail yard there (now relocated to Frazer), which should increase parking and maybe bus service as well. Paoli is arguably one of SEPTA's larger "hubs" outside of the city even today, and a connection point there, with the lesser distance to Center City, does make sense.

khecht wrote: Remember also that Paoli will (eventually) have a new transportation center built on the old rail yard there (now relocated to Frazer), which should increase parking and maybe bus service as well. Paoli is arguably one of SEPTA's larger "hubs" outside of the city even today, and a connection point there, with the lesser distance to Center City, does make sense.

PAoli is THE largest stop outside center city (although you'd never think it from looking at it). the rail yard redevelopment, decades in the works, is supposed to not only include high level, center island platforms but also mixed use development including house and commercial space. Last I heard willistown township was refusing to change their zoning (the other half is tredyfferin) to allows greater density. One would hope it includes a hotel as well. At any rate, it was to use existing rights of way and two possible extensions were to Oaks and West Chester.

Man I wish this existed. I work in Great Valley on Valley Stream parkway and live 5 minutes from Ardmore Station. This would be incredible for commuters and would probably do alot to fix the traffic problems.

As far as I know, this project is moving along nicely. I believe it ias at the EIS at present. This project would really put Phoenixville on the map, and make nice use of a perfectly good railroad line.

I hate to rain on your parade, but in the real world this proposal might justify a Bus Rapid Transit system, although even that is questionable. LRT here faces the same problems with distrubution as would a RT 100 extention into the King of Prussia office areas, mainly that the pattern of land use is predominately sprawl.

Even Cross County Metro, as proposed, didn't make much sense as a rail service. It went near many places without actually getting to any of them directly.

BRT would allow you to serve both Paoli & Frazer under the right circumstances. It would also allow for a diversity of destinations along the way as well as at the north end. And this system could be connected as an adjunct to a Cross County BRT system.

The only rail service that makes sense for Phoenixville currently is an R6 extention along the Schuylkill River towards Reading.

I believe BRT is out of the question since I think NS wants to retain rights to use the line, or a portion of it. I wouldn't say it's as useless as the CCM. Phoenxville isn't just sprawl, Paoli station is well used and parking has been tight for decades, and traffic has only gotten worse. With thw worthington project, Vanguard, and Wyeth you have a fair amount of jobs within walking distance. It's true that the middle portion is sprawl, but you have to start somewhere...certainly adding sidewalks and trees and perhaps making the roads feel more like boulevards than highways might help. You've got over 25,000 people working there, you might as well try to improve it.

Bill R. wrote:The only rail service that makes sense for Phoenixville currently is an R6 extention along the Schuylkill River towards Reading.

That is another option, one that makes sense, but in the hands of SEPTA, failed miserably. Now, the locals are taking matters into their own hands since SEPTA suffers from extreme incompetence. Yes, there is a quiet spot in the middle of this line, but the two ends points are the important part. There are MANY people who drive to Paoli from Pottstown, Oaks, Royersford, Kimberton, Schwenksville, Collegeville, etc. to get to the city. These people spend half the time in their car, the other half on the train.

Since the diesel train run by SEPTA going to Reading will never happen because SEPTA loves their electric-only glorified trolley system disguised as a commuter system, local townships are pushing for this, using private funds. I am hoping if/when this project becomes a reality, it will set a standard for other projects in the area that SEPTA bungled, like the diesel service between Lansdale and Quakertown.

This is a hybrid, to be sure. Not the norm. But it has real potential. It is short and simple enough that is could become a reality.

THE CITIZENS FOR THE TRAIN update
November 2008

The economic down turn has affected the way we are going to look at the next phase of the study. The demand study will need to be funded through a government-sponsored program. We have identified the program from which we could secure dollars and would like to get the consensus of the group to move forward, as well as discuss this change in direction.

The meeting will occur December 3, 2008

The Columbia Hotel
2nd Floor
100 block of Bridge Street
Downtown Phoenixville

The presentation will start around 7:00 PM. Same routine as last time…free buffet and cash bar.

The Citizens for the Train is a loosely confederated group of citizens seeking to improve the transportation options in the region. We will vote whether or not seek the funding for the next phase of the study. Please come a little early so everyone can sign in and we will start promptly at 7PM.

There are currently a few websites out there promoting this proposed service:

http://www.citizensforthetrain.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Pennsylvania)

This seems difficult, but why not just extend R5 trains rather than have a connection? That way there is a single seat ride to Philadelphia.