Penn Station, Madness and Train Boarding

lirr415 wrote:The signs are fine, they have been forever. It isn't that complicated for any average person to be able to pay attention JUST ENOUGH to figure out simple stuff like reading a sign. I get asked "Is this track 3" while standing by, you guessed it a track 3 sign.

Speaking as a first-time visitor to the NJT side of things, I also agree that the signs, boards, and announcements are fine. I actually found Secacus Junction to be more confusing than Penn Station. I think the first day we were there, we had to scramble back up into the station and over to another platform because of a misplaced free standing sign on the NEC tracks. Penn Station was fine from a pure direction sense. The waiting area was utter mayhem, but we never came close to getting on a wrong train.

jamesinclair wrote:

ThirdRail7 wrote: Ooooor maybe it is time for people to take their heads out if their rear ends , actually listen to instructions and read what is posted in multiple places. How much more money do you want to spend to protect people from themselves? For every person that goes off course, there are 100 who manage to find their way. There is more information now than ever. It would probably be cheaper just to travel for the person.

You cant fix stupid. Its never going to happen.

.

Add confused to that statement and that is what it seems like you're attempting to do. I stand by my statement. There is more information than ever. At this point even some of the trains have the train number right on the side of it! Most people have little problem with it.

Is the solution to put signs up by the track that list every station the train makes? NJT already has that in Hoboken. It doesn't accomplish much. People still have to look at the sign, be able to read it, and understand what they are reading. It is not uncommon for a person to look at the sign, not see their station listed, and then go get on the train anyway (although far far more will simply assume that EVERY train to Suffern stops at Radburn for example). Of course, once they are on the train (and now having ignored several announcements) they will argue with the train crew that the train is supposed to stop at their station/run on their line.

Sirsonic wrote:Is the solution to put signs up by the track that list every station the train makes? NJT already has that in Hoboken. It doesn't accomplish much. People still have to look at the sign, be able to read it, and understand what they are reading. It is not uncommon for a person to look at the sign, not see their station listed, and then go get on the train anyway (although far far more will simply assume that EVERY train to Suffern stops at Radburn for example). Of course, once they are on the train (and now having ignored several announcements) they will argue with the train crew that the train is supposed to stop at their station/run on their line.

It's more common for people to read the boards, see their stop, then ask us if the train makes that stop. Secaucus is good for people not reading the boards, however...

The HBLRT is the ultimate in leaving nothing undone to eliminate getting on the wrong train. Maybe it is ADA carried to its limit. There is an electric sign on the platform saying, for instance, Tonnelle Ave and the time to the next train, for instance, 3 min. Then when you get on the train there is an automatic announcement repeated every few seconds saying, for instane, "This is the train to Tonnelle Avenue. Next stop, second street." So I guess deaf people can read the sign and blind people can hear the announcements.

The problem is that the repeated announcements drive regular users crazy. I am sitting on the train with a book and I can't concentrate on it because of the announcements.
I think on HBLRT they ought to have fewer repetitions.
Secaucus is confusing because on the upper level the tracks used change, least on weekends. I think there are switches each side of Secaucus, so maybe they could always use the same track for the NYP-bound trains, etc. But they may have reasons for not doing that.
In the end, though, some people are going to be oblivious, disoriented, preoccupied or stupid. I don't think the railroad can be run to eliminate the problems these folks have.

My best story of someone getting on the wrong train was a person going to Mount Kisco on the Harlem line who boarded a New Haven bound express, and the first stop was in South Norwalk, halfway up the line. Not like the Connecticut trains look exactly like the NY ones, but can't imagine that was a good evening for her.

7express wrote:My best story of someone getting on the wrong train was a person going to Mount Kisco on the Harlem line who boarded a New Haven bound express, and the first stop was in South Norwalk, halfway up the line. Not like the Connecticut trains look exactly like the NY ones, but can't imagine that was a good evening for her.

These things happen more often than people realize. Score one for the stupidity of mankind!

nick11a wrote:

7express wrote:My best story of someone getting on the wrong train was a person going to Mount Kisco on the Harlem line who boarded a New Haven bound express, and the first stop was in South Norwalk, halfway up the line. Not like the Connecticut trains look exactly like the NY ones, but can't imagine that was a good evening for her.

These things happen more often than people realize. Score one for the stupidity of mankind!

Exactly! And as people in the thread said earlier, it's dopes that don't/refuse to pay any attention. About 5 years ago, I got a euro rail pass for Christmas and took the train all over Europe. None of the announcements were in English (I went through Luxembourg, France, Germany, Hungary, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium & the Netherlands) however not once did I miss a station or get on the wrong train. Why?? Because I paid attention!

Probably th worst train to mistakenly get on would be the LIRR's Cannonabll... It leaves Penn Station and it's first stop is Westhampton 75+ miles later.

And what's worse, if you get off at Westhampton the next inbound train back into the city doesn't come until 11:51. The earliest up could get back to Penn Station is 2:09am the next morning...over 10 hours you left!

lirr42 wrote:Probably th worst train to mistakenly get on would be the LIRR's Cannonabll... It leaves Penn Station and it's first stop is Westhampton 75+ miles later.

And what's worse, if you get off at Westhampton the next inbound train back into the city doesn't come until 11:51. The earliest up could get back to Penn Station is 2:09am the next morning...over 10 hours you left!

Wow , lol

lirr42 wrote:Probably th worst train to mistakenly get on would be the LIRR's Cannonabll... It leaves Penn Station and it's first stop is Westhampton 75+ miles later.

And what's worse, if you get off at Westhampton the next inbound train back into the city doesn't come until 11:51. The earliest up could get back to Penn Station is 2:09am the next morning...over 10 hours you left!

I would hope that anybody boarding a train called "Cannonball" would know that it is a train not to be messed with.

Hahahaha... Sheez that sucks. And i thought mistakenly hopping the Princeton Junction trains were bad. At least you could get yourself back on track rather quickly with only your afternoon/evening plans shot to pieces (dpeending on your transit aptitude and reverse direction connection convenience).

Now, I bet I can think up something worse, what does someone do if they board the correct Princeton Junction express train with their girlfriend, and she.. Not being the sharpest tool in the shed (Hypothetical situation so no direct insults or specific examples being given here.. This is more for a hilarious thought) goes off to get something from a news shop, goes back to find a train, then hops the Cannonball right before it departs? This is just for laughs... Geez, I would be pissed. Because now I would have to take a 90 minute train ride to my destination, then a several hour road trip to go and get her. Still funny to think about though.

One time I was on a SEPTA train that had just departed Trenton. College-age kid is asking nearby passengers if this is Amtrak. Conductor comes over a few minutes later. "Where are you going?" "Florida."

loufah wrote:One time I was on a SEPTA train that had just departed Trenton. College-age kid is asking nearby passengers if this is Amtrak. Conductor comes over a few minutes later. "Where are you going?" "Florida."

I saw a family at Newark Penn going to Jacksonville getting ready to board an NJT train. I pointed at the monitor at advised them it was the next train on that track, 4 minutes away.

A more common case for confusion at SEPTA is probably trenton vs west trenton.


And folks, you really need to remember that as railans you know trains inside out, even in other languages. Some people have never been on a train before, or ride extremely infrequently.

Someone asked me which train went to New brunswick. I said to look for the trenton (red) trains on the monitor. They said "no, Im not going to trenton, Im going to new brunswick"

Don't get me started on ignored advice. People look lost, ask for help, say thank you, then do exactly the thing you told them NOT to do.

Dozens of people at Trenton ask me how to get to NYP/NWK, and I say, well hop on the 8:50, or the 9:14 (am). They board the 9:04 which is a local, and I end up seeing them both get on at Trenton and off at Newark from the platform. A few times I got to witness a "holy ****, how did he get here before me?!?!?" look on their face.

Conversely, I've seen New Brunswick/Princeton/Hamilton bound folks get on a NJCL train since they often sit for a minute on usually track 4, and usually arrows if its an amboy train. Saved a few of those with a friendly "hey yea that one goes to the beach, not your stop".

Then the friendly chatters that say oh ok it's my train (me not knowing where they were going), then see them walking back off 10 seconds later.