Open Vestibule windows / dutch doors

Last summer I rode the Alaska Railroad and they encourage you to stay in the vestibule and open the windows. Some commuter trains out east operate with entire doors open from station to station. Our local South Shore trains have windows that open in each cab/vestibule and crews generally look the other way when a passenger opens such windows.

Why, then, is Amtrak so rabidly against passengers opening door windows on Superliners or Horizon cars?

I was wondering about this once on the Coast Starlight; the car attendant knows its in the safety procedures, but he seems to think its a requirement from the host railroad.

And in the upcoming copy of Trains Mag, Don "I hate Joe Boardman but need something to be angry about because he's retired and no longer a target and i'm a raging a-hole" Phillips states that he like the guys running N&W 611 excursions because they don't let guys open the dutch doors.

What a huge wanker. Seriously, I'm done with Trains mag until they retire that loser.

Believe Mr Phillips needs to hang up the typewriter and retire,however the "ambulance chaser" aka "Better call Saul" type lawyers,
sort of "forced" the no Dutch Door rule by the Host RR's.

Tadman wrote:And in the upcoming copy of Trains Mag, Don "I hate Joe Boardman but need something to be angry about because he's retired and no longer a target and i'm a raging a-hole" Phillips states that he like the guys running N&W 611 excursions because they don't let guys open the dutch doors.

What a huge wanker. Seriously, I'm done with Trains mag until they retire that loser.

#nailedit.

I think I have a better chance of riding into work on a M2 tomorrow - and one with a bar car no less - than we have of seeing Mr. Phillips being shown the door. For some reason the publisher seems to like his poorly constructed rants.

If Mr. Phillips hates open vestibule windows and Dutch doors, I can only imagine how he might feel about how the doors on ACMU cars were occasionally handled back when I was a kid.

My Amtrak experience has been that it depends on the conductor. Most stick to the letter the law, not even allowing standing in the vestibule. Some are a bit more lenient. AND... the personal attack on DP doesn't belong on this forum.

Similar experience to Tom M when I was in in Canada on VIA (Atlantic 1981 and Canadian 1984) although found that in cars aft of the sleepers, one quickly found out that at that time In Canada they had not adopted retention toilets and "dump on the tracks" was still employed. The crews leaned more to the "by the book" up there so it was somewhat of a cat and mouse game but worth it to see the spectacular scenery without a window in the way.

Jon

Jenny on a M2 wrote:If Mr. Phillips hates open vestibule windows and Dutch doors, I can only imagine how he might feel about how the doors on ACMU cars were occasionally handled back when I was a kid.

I couldn't get enough of the ACMU 1100's; I used to ride them GCT to Tarrytown all the time. You just had to use common sense.

But Mr. Smith, common sense is no longer a common virtue - and, as earlier noted here, there are too many Plaintiff attorneys around nowadays (BTW, in Season 2 "Better Call Saul" Jimmy is trying to be a straight up lawyer being partnered with a gal who is clearly that).

I recall how the New Haven's MU cars on the Stamford Local would run with open traps. A passenger was expected to be responsible for themselves.

Sorry, but I'm all in favor of enforcement of "stay off the vestibule - this world is too litigious for anything else.

I enjoyed the many, many miles I rode in the vestibule. My circle of railfan friends called it "trapping" (riding standing on the traps) and my best experience was on the B&M from Springfield MA to Bellows Falls VT on the "Ambassador" day train. On my native New Haven RR we looked forward to having the 8600 series coaches on the train as they had Dutch Doors and many NHRR crews looked the other way.

Problem today is lawsuits and they come from everywhere with lawyers advertising on TV all the time, you have suffered from injuries, let me recover for you. Is it any wonder that regulations have been enforced?
I used to love riding in a dutch door and did my share of them over the years. Another big issue today is the presence of vandals all along the ROW with rocks aimed at trains, you do not want to be a target in a moving passenger train, they hit like bullets and can do as much damage to your body parts as well. Vestibule riding for me today? NO THANKS!!\
Memories - I remember long vestibule rides in the west back in the 1960's. even more I remember the first trip of the restored Montrealer in September, 1972 a bunch of us were gathered on one of the vestibules leaving Springfield and I stay there all the way to Brattleboro, we really "switched them out" that night. Our conversation made for comment in the New York Times and I still have the clip.
Noel Weaver

Backshophoss wrote:Believe Mr Phillips needs to hang up the typewriter and retire,however the "ambulance chaser" aka "Better call Saul" type lawyers,
sort of "forced" the no Dutch Door rule by the Host RR's.

In 1963 and 1967 I was 6 and 10. Mom took us on UPs City of Saint Louis from Los Angeles to Abilene KS. We travelled Pullman. While the crew or the Porter would let us be with them when they had a Dutch Door open, they were adamant: Don't do this yourself. They told my Mom ... Age doesn't matter. It's a safety matter, passengers are not to open the Dutch Doors.

It's not a liability issue, it really is a safety issue ... especially if you're opening the door to the inside of double track or a passing siding.

Tom M wrote: AND... the personal attack on DP doesn't belong on this forum.

It's not a personal attack. It is a very objective characterization of Mr. Phillips' shortcomings. Every month he is bitter, rude, and generally out of line. By writing his rants with such a tone, he opens himself and his writing up to critique of said writing. He continues to publish baseless complaints and cites sources with no name. Thus, nobody takes his writings as anything other than the rants of a grouchy old man. Were he to write something of substance, it would be ignored.
'
Next month's topics for Mr. Phillips column include:

1. Why are passengers allowed to talk in the station waiting rooms?
2. Why are trains heated still?
3. Why do children like ice cream so much
3. The legend of Stroolpida (http://germanstories.vcu.edu/struwwel/daumen_e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
4. I still drive an '84 Caprice Classic and you should, too.
5. Stop smiling so much!

I Dutch-doored on the Atlantic even crossing an international border. Here's looking ahead into New Brunswick....and back to Maine.

(Guess I could have thrown contraband off while in Maine!!)