Official Conway Scenic Railroad Thread (CSRR)

[b&m 1566]

First off: I know I'm not a moderator and I'm not trying to be one in anyway, shape or form. However I was looking through this forum and noticed quite a few threads in regards to the CSRR all talking about the same stuff in a round about way. So in attempts to try and keep the forum a little more organized I figured why not try and keep one thread open for all discussion in regarding the CSRR, 470 RR Club and heck even the Engineer 15 Club (given the fact that most of the engines operated by the CSRR are owned by the Engineer 15 Club), since they all work in hand.

Moving on:
I got a little board one night last week and my curiosity started to run on something and I decided to email the 470 RR Club some questions that popped up.
I apologize for the question they may have not been asked the corrected way because I was typing out the questions as fast as my mind was thinking and I didn't want to forget anything. Well I got a response and I figured I would share it and see what you people think.

I have a few questions to ask about the 501, 4266 and 4268

1. Will the 501 be restored anytime soon? I know it will take many years but you do plain on finishing it correct? If so do you plan on getting it running again for the CSRR to use? Sure would be nice to see that going through the notch.



"Will the 501 be restored?" YES!
"Anytime soon"? Depends on what you mean by soon. We have had to wait while the CSRR was fixing up their steam engine, and then to wait for the FRA to bless it so that they could finish putting it back together and get it running. Now that their engine is operating, it should be possible to get the 501 into the engine house where we can begin working on it. We have a small amount of money in hand - not enough to finish the job, but enough to move ahead. Because of new FRA regulations, we have to take the new flues out and have them inspect the boiler, and then put the tubes back in. We don't anticipate any problem with this, but it's a lot of work when you are doing it with volunteers and minimal paid help. We should though be able to get moving on this phase of the work fairly soon. I honestly don't know what else needs to be done. It is, however, definitely our plan to restore the engine. At least to get it whole and able to be run. Whether we actually run it or not is still a point of debate. The problem here is insurance, which is hard to get and expensive. But many of us, myself included, think that it would really be great to see the 501 charging up through the Notch with a train. I know the CSRR would love to see it, but they are not in a position to contribute much actual cash to the project, though they are very generous with things like space, some parts and labor. When thinking about running her through the Notch, tough, remember there isn't any facility to turn the engine at the top of the hill. That might become a problem also.

2. People often say that the 4266 doesn't run that great which is why the CSRR doesn't use it a whole lot so if that's the case what is wrong with it and will you guys get it fixed. I know it has some exterior rusting (is that all that's wrong with it?) You guys plan on getting it a new paint job soon?


I'm not sure about whether or not the 4266 "runs great". I know they use her quite a lot when they have problems with one of the FP9s. As far as I know, she has no significant problems, and yes we do plan to paint her but I can't say when.

3. Will the 4268 ever be used again? I know its missing its engine but do you guy ever plan on putting one in it to run again? If not do you plan to at least restore it so it can still be used as a cabbage car like that of the Amtrak's Downeaster? Sure would be nice seeing the 4266 and 4268 pulling a train set threw the notch like the CSRR does with the 2 FB9's even though both of those run.



As it stands now, there are no plans for the 4268 other than for a static display. We do intend very soon to restore some of the corroded side panels and paint her. We are also going to mount a plaque on the locomotive dedicating it to our late former President, Les Myers. The original plan when the 4268 was acquired was to run her as a control cab as you suggest. It was tried, and we found that because she is so light without the weight of a diesel engine that she sits way too high and the couplers don't even come close to meeting. Now I know that railroads get around this problem with slugs by filling the carbody with blocks of concrete, but at least for now we have no plans to do this. She will, though, I expect look a lot better fairly soon.

The real expert on all of these topics is Matt Rines. His email address is

[email protected]
although he may not thank me for telling you this!

Len Bachelder
for the 470 Railroad Club

[GP40MC 1116]

Well Brian.... Seems you did your research! I hope the CSRR continues to keep it's rolling stock up to good condition and it can preserve the rail history and keep it going good! We should be happy that they've done a good job thus far

[jcpatten]

Well if the 501 become operational, and the problem of turning it around on top of the Notch cannot be solved, I think they should bring it over to the Rockland Branch and run it. There's a wye on one end and a turntable at the other.

That way there'll be Big Steam in my backyard (almost)!

[CSRR573]

The problem up in the notch CAN be solved just probaly wont be solved.

[b&m 1566]

Yeah the Y at Fabians could be rebuilt, not sure at what cost though; they have the room for it still. A water supply could also be re-built at Fabians too, to refill the 501 or the 7470.
In the end though I can't see why the engines can't just run in reverse back to N. Conway or even run in reverse up through the notch, which ever would be easier.

[CSRR573]

they ran the 4266 up backwards on the inagural run up to the notch,and they run the 7470 backward to conway too.

[greenus90]

Running backwards (tender first) uphill is generally a bad idea in a steamer for one main reason- when running backwards, uphill, the water in the boiler tends to collect towards the smokebox end of the locomotive; if the water level in the boiler is not kept at sufficient level to keep the crown sheet over the firebox covered, then there is considerable risk of a boiler explosion- definetly not the prettiest way to depart the Earth.

Also, The one main reason they got the UBoat and the B23-7 was because they have dynamic brakes; one of the conductors said they go thru a set of brakeshoes a week on the F units during peak foliage season, running thru the notch. I doubt they will run the steam(ers) up the Notch because they are much harder to handle coming down the grade.

[SLR 393]

The wye is still in place at Quebec Junction, which is not far from Fabyans, at least it was a few years ago. Anyone know if its still there? I think we cleaned some brush off it on a motorcar run.

[b&m 1566]

Running backwards (tender first) uphill is generally a bad idea in a steamer for one main reason- when running backwards, uphill, the water in the boiler tends to collect towards the smokebox end of the locomotive; if the water level in the boiler is not kept at sufficient level to keep the crown sheet over the firebox covered, then there is considerable risk of a boiler explosion- definetly not the prettiest way to depart the Earth.

Also, The one main reason they got the UBoat and the B23-7 was because they have dynamic brakes; one of the conductors said they go thru a set of brakeshoes a week on the F units during peak foliage season, running thru the notch. I doubt they will run the steam(ers) up the Notch because they are much harder to handle coming down the grade.

Though I do understand your point I would never imagine the CSRR would run the steam engine through the notch on a daily bases. However I could see them running a steam engine through the notch at least once a week or a few times a month during the operation season.

The wye is still in place at Quebec Junction, which is not far from Fabyans, at least it was a few years ago. Anyone know if its still there? I think we cleaned some brush off it on a motorcar run.

Yes the Y is still there but heavily over grown. Though it would make the running time longer to and from N. Conway by going to Quebec Junction it would be a viable option rather than re-build the Y at Fabians.
What I can’t understand is why they do not maintain the Y at Bartlett. They used it to turn the 4266 in the inaugural run to Bartlett in December of 94. If and when the 501 does get used again they could even use it for the Valley Train to Bartlett and use the Y to turn the engine around.

[shadyjay]

Quote:
Yes the Y is still there but heavily over grown. Though it would make the running time longer to and from N. Conway by going to Quebec Junction it would be a viable option rather than re-build the Y at Fabians.


The running time wouldn't necessarily be longer, and here's why:
all Crawford Notch trains layover for over an hour at Crawfords station before returning back to North Conway. If such a move could be accomplished in that time, then it would be possible to turn it and get back to Crawfords in time for a break for the engine crew and then head down to N. Conway.

But, sounds like we're all pipe-dreamin' here....

-Jay H.

[b&m 1566]

The running time wouldn't necessarily be longer, and here's why: all Crawford Notch trains layover for over an hour at Crawfords station before returning back to North Conway. If such a move could be accomplished in that time, then it would be possible to turn it and get back to Crawfords in time for a break for the engine crew and then head down to N. Conway.

But, sounds like we're all pipe-dreamin' here....

-Jay H.

A pipe-dream with out a doubt... However I have been on 3 trips with the CSRR in route to Hazen’s and for the crew to run light to Quebec Junction in and hour I'm not so sure it could be done with in an hour. The run from Crawford’s to Fabians is 15 minutes one way (remember they cut the lay over time down to 45 minutes virus an hour when running to Fabians), Québec Junction is another 15 to 20 minutes west of Fabians; add on to the track conditions west of Fabians I don't think they can go over 15 mph where the track east of Fabians they can go up to 30 maybe 35. With just minimal rehab work on the Y plus given the size of the Y it would probably take 10 minutes just to turn the engine at a snails pace. I would think it would take at least an hour in 15 minutes maybe as long as an hour and a half before the engine would return to Crawford’s, not to mention if it needs to be re-fill with water.
If by all means someone disagrees with me tell me. I'm not going by any official travel time other than my own experience.

[GP40MC 1116]

The running time wouldn't necessarily be longer, and here's why: all Crawford Notch trains layover for over an hour at Crawfords station before returning back to North Conway. If such a move could be accomplished in that time, then it would be possible to turn it and get back to Crawfords in time for a break for the engine crew and then head down to N. Conway.

But, sounds like we're all pipe-dreamin' here....

-Jay H.

A pipe-dream with out a doubt... However I have been on 3 trips with the CSRR in route to Hazen’s and for the crew to run light to Quebec Junction in and hour I'm not so sure it could be done with in an hour. The run from Crawford’s to Fabians is 15 minutes one way (remember they cut the lay over time down to 45 minutes virus an hour when running to Fabians), Québec Junction is another 15 to 20 minutes west of Fabians; add on to the track conditions west of Fabians I don't think they can go over 15 mph where the track east of Fabians they can go up to 30 maybe 35. With just minimal rehab work on the Y plus given the size of the Y it would probably take 10 minutes just to turn the engine at a snails pace. I would think it would take at least an hour in 15 minutes maybe as long as an hour and a half before the engine would return to Crawford’s, not to mention if it needs to be re-fill with water.
If by all means someone disagrees with me tell me. I'm not going by any official travel time other than my own experience.

Yup.. agreeded.. i know it's great to think of new solutions, but to throw of the entire Notch Trains schedule, it wouldn't help. Speaking of that.. remember it has to stay on schedule to meet the Valley Train @ Bartlett, if not, it's stuck behind that until N Conway

[eriemike]

I would love to see the 501 return to service as well and would think that Bartlett or Fayban's would be a great place to turn a locomotive on the Notch run.

Actually, in my idealized world, it would be neat to take the village of Bartlett make a "living" rail museum. You would restore the entire yard to what was there during the height of steam service in the Notch. You would rebuild a replica of the depot on the original site, restore the enginehouse, rebuild any out buildings to the way it was in the early 20th century. In fact, you could try and restore the entire viliage of Bartlett to the way it was. Get a small fleet of scratch built MEC Consolidations, including the 501 and the 509 at Steamtown (If they can do that in the UK, why not here?). Run the place as if it were the 1930's or 1940's. If any of you have seen those Stanley Whitney videos of Bartlett taken in the late 1940's or have actually lived it, know what I'm talking about.

If they can do that with Plimoth Plantation, then why not Bartlett? It would add tourist dollars to the area, preserve a long lost era of the local scene, not just the RR scene, and it would give a more exciting destination for the CSR to go to, than what is currently there.

Of course the hard, cold reality is that something like that will not happen as there are environmental reasons, NIMBYism, and $$$ and lots of the $$$ that would prevent something like that from happening, but it is a nice idealized, alternate reality.

[Meyblc]

I just purchased and watched a DVD called New England Glory Mountain Division made by a company called Herron Rail. They show footage of Maine Central 4-6-0's and 2-8-2's running up the Notch as Pushers / Helpers and backing back down the Notch to Bartlett.

Don't know why the 0-6-0 and 2-8-0 couldn't do the same....

[eriemike]

Meyblc Wrote

I just purchased and watched a DVD called New England Glory Mountain Division made by a company called Herron Rail. They show footage of Maine Central 4-6-0's and 2-8-2's running up the Notch as Pushers / Helpers and backing back down the Notch to Bartlett.

This is the video/DVD that Stanley Whitney took with a 16mm color film camera. His stuff is priceless.