North South Rail Link

I was shocked when I searched the forum, that I didn't find any dedicated threads to this topic, only mentions of it in countless other threads. Here is my take...
Why is this a big deal? Can't you already connect north and south station by going through cambridge, by MIT, connecting to the line right by the pike, then heading east right to north station? Its not the most direct route but its not exactly WAY out of the way either. Just use that, whats the big deal?

This little link right here, isn't this enough?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Cambridge ... 5499&hl=en

This comes up periodically on the MBTA Rail Operations forum. If you do a search there on "North South," you will come up with several appropriate hits. It is difficult to make a more refined search as sometimes the word "connection" or "connector" or "link" follows.

As I recall, the most pressing problems cited were that the track is not FRA approved for passenger train travel, that there are lots of grade crossings, and that it would be extremely, extremely time consuming to travel that way. Passengers detraining at South Station could probably crawl on their hands and knees and get to North Station in almost the same time. (All right, so I exaggerate, but you get the picture.)

The Grand Junction route that you mention is, however, how the Downeaster equipment travels to the Amtrak facilities at Southampton Street (south of South Station) for servicing.

It was talked about a good amount in the MBTA forum that I had started a while back..... here's the link to it http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15936
I'm sure there are moor in the forum but not sure where.

ThinkNarrow wrote:This comes up periodically on the MBTA Rail Operations forum. If you do a search there on "North South," you will come up with several appropriate hits. It is difficult to make a more refined search as sometimes the word "connection" or "connector" or "link" follows.

As I recall, the most pressing problems cited were that the track is not FRA approved for passenger train travel, that there are lots of grade crossings, and that it would be extremely, extremely time consuming to travel that way. Passengers detraining at South Station could probably crawl on their hands and knees and get to North Station in almost the same time. (All right, so I exaggerate, but you get the picture.)

The Grand Junction route that you mention is, however, how the Downeaster equipment travels to the Amtrak facilities at Southampton Street (south of South Station) for servicing.

I found a page that gave a bit of info on the branch. It seems to me (could be wrong) that the only reason its so slow is because there are no gates so the train has to stop at each crossing to flag traffic. Just throw up gates at each of the street crossings and you should be able to go at a pretty good speed. Then you could easily run the downeaster through boston and continue on down the line to NYC. And save us a few billion while we're at it. One thing I can't tell from the google map is weather it crosses mass ave at street level or if it goes under mass ave. Still though running over the line in google maps, I don't see any major issues with using it. Throw up gates and I see no reason why we should spend billions on a new tunnel just so amtrak trains can shave a few minutes off a trip 'through' boston. Oh well.

They are all grade crossings and most of the streets have heavy traffic, especially during rush hour. There are also many pedestrians to look out for as well.

I would add that the Grand Junction connects to the Boston-Albany line rather than the Boston-New York line. The connection is in the Beacon Park yard, where the Boston-Albany line is (I believe) single track and busily used by CSX freights and MBTA commuter trains. The Downeaster would have to go from North Station to the Grand Junction to Beacon Park to South Station, changing direction a few times in the process.

The Grand Junction line is regularly used by the MBTA switchers to bring locomotives and equipment requiring inspections and repair from the south side to the north side. I doubt that they could justify upgrading this line to a higher speed connection for the present level of through traffic when there are other transportation modes readily available for people to get from South Station to North Station.

ThinkNarrow wrote:I would add that the Grand Junction connects to the Boston-Albany line rather than the Boston-New York line. The connection is in the Beacon Park yard, where the Boston-Albany line is (I believe) single track and busily used by CSX freights and MBTA commuter trains. The Downeaster would have to go from North Station to the Grand Junction to Beacon Park to South Station, changing direction a few times in the process.

Exactly. You'd be talking about three changes of direction between arriving from the north and departing on the NEC southbound (once at North Station, once again at Beacon Park, and then again at South Station). Plus, you would also need to do an engine change at South Station if the train is going to continue into Penn in NYC, and if the ex-F40 cabbages are still used, they would have to come off as they won't clear the tunnels into Penn. You're talking about 10 minutes minimum for each change of direction, at least 20 if not 30 for the engine change and cabbage removal at South Station, plus the Grand Junction could ever be more than about a 25 mph operation, if you're lucky (too many at grade crossings and pedestrian crossings, esp. around MIT...and we know how much common sense college students apply to situations like that). In the time it would take to get the train from Maine going back out the other side of town towards points south, you can make the Orange Line transfer from North Station to Back Bay a couple times over.

The engine change issue has nothing to do with grand junction though, they'll still have to do that even if they dig a tunnel. And as far as the direction changes, one would be while you are already parked at north station, and one while you are already parked at south station. So all you really need is one our near bc that would actually be 'in flight'. Its not the most optimal route but considering the alternative it definitely seems like the way to go, assume amtrak really wants to run 'through' boston.

Sell the idea to the people who can make it happen. This forum has more than its fair share of pipe dreamers and pipe dream sympathizers.
I see this idea never happening. The grade crossing at Mass Ave is enough of a sticking point already, judging from the astonished looks on the faces of drivers who have to back up a few feet to let the CSX produce train crawl through.

This all begs the question: Why if this gap has always existed and will always exist is the State of Maine so hoping Amtrak is going to extend to Rockland? Other than being a commuter line, which if one does the demographics could never support that use, what is the purpose?

Amtrak to Rockland, from where? Only to have to stop in Boston and find some means of transportation to get to North Station, if you are lucky enough to know your way around Boston.

Reminds me of the old days at Logan, God forbid you landed at the Delta Terminal and had to take the shuttle to LaGuardia, a three hour nightmare, oh and if you had checked luggage, plan on seeing it on your return flught, sitting on the tarmac.

Some of the advantages of a North South link include:
1) Ability to run MBTA trains through from North side to South Side
2) Easier access to BET for South Side trains
3) Potential for a central train station located downtown.

There are obviously more examples, but these are some of the highlights.

On a side note, the book "Mapping Boston" features an old map that includes a proposed link from Park Square station, under the common to Park St., and then to the north side. I believe it included a station at Park St. as well.

cbrrfan wrote:This all begs the question: Why if this gap has always existed and will always exist is the State of Maine so hoping Amtrak is going to extend to Rockland? Other than being a commuter line, which if one does the demographics could never support that use, what is the purpose?

Was the Union Freight RR (which ran between North and South Station, albiet via street-running) ever used for passenger service?

NO! The UFRR was strictly a freight service for the waterfront area between the two stations! The only passenger train EVER on the line was a FLATCAR with FOLDING CHAIRS set up to accomodate railfans on a 1-time-only excursion/tour of the line.
For dates/details, see: Frank Kyper's "The Railroad That Came Out At Night," 1st or 2nd edition.
Cosmo