No Hope for Newtown

bikentransit wrote:I assume this is the box in question:

Yep, that WAS the one.

Maybe they needed a new one on the Warminster line!

It's been pointed out that whenever SEPTA needs a gadget somewhere, the easiest thing to do is to grab one from the Newtown Line.

Whatever components that can be salvaged will be reconditioned if necessary and reused. I'm wondering if they're getting ready to go rail-to-trail in Bryn Athyn? I believe that side of Byberry Rd. is in the borough. I'm not sure why the removal of this case translates into mismanagement, as if service were to be restored, it would be ripped out anyway since standards and technology for crossings have changed quite a bit since the mid 80's. Better to take it now and reuse what they can before it gets vandalized or damaged.

limejuice wrote:Whatever components that can be salvaged will be reconditioned if necessary and reused. I'm wondering if they're getting ready to go rail-to-trail in Bryn Athyn? I believe that side of Byberry Rd. is in the borough. I'm not sure why the removal of this case translates into mismanagement, as if service were to be restored, it would be ripped out anyway since standards and technology for crossings have changed quite a bit since the mid 80's. Better to take it now and reuse what they can before it gets vandalized or damaged.

The rail trail issue popped into my head as well. Can't wait til all the "trailers" start throwing their empty Dasani bottles into Bryn Athyn's back yards.

Just came across this on the ARHS website. ENJOY....

http://picasaweb.google.com/anthraciter ... 2178950066

Nice photos!!

I wonder if the guys at PATEC have thought of doing a tourist train along the Newtown line like NH&I and WCRR. Would be pretty cool...and save the line from further trail-i-zation.

You would be better off trying to restore freight service to the line, though there were never many freight customers to serve. Might get a couple in Southampton, Is Agway still in Newtown? Frost-Watson is long gone and don't believe Strathmann will ever sell lumber in any great quantities again.

dreese_us wrote:You would be better off trying to restore freight service to the line, though there were never many freight customers to serve. Might get a couple in Southampton, Is Agway still in Newtown? Frost-Watson is long gone and don't believe Strathmann will ever sell lumber in any great quantities again.

That brings a whole new logistical nightmare into play. Lets just stick with passenger traffic..?

scotty269 wrote:That brings a whole new logistical nightmare into play. Let's just stick with passenger traffic..?

Actually, freight service would be easier in that the start up would be quicker and without public input needed. NIMBYs have no voice in private freight company endeavours. Plus, by law, SEPTA cannot deny a freight carrier rights to any of their lines because it would be an impediment on improving local economy. Yes, freight business would not be significat but it is a start and SEPTA would not have to no anything by rake in the benefits.

username2 wrote:The current total lack of freight traffic speaks for itself. If there was any demand, there would be freight traffic.

You clearly have not a clue about this line, my friend. Conrail and all frieght related activites were kicked off the line in summer of 1981 by SEPTA because they were attempting their experimental "rapid transit" experiment (cannot mix transit and traditional RR operations). Then the line died with supposed promises it would come back. No one has really bothered because SEPTA's bylaws are not exactly common knowledge. Enough time has passed where SEPTA's rapid transit thing is but a memory - just got to tell tne entrepenuers that freight serbvice is no longer ruled out becuase there are no longer transit operations. A little promotion would go a long way. Just seeing a train transverse the line is publicity enough where local businesses will inquire "hey, there's activity on the line. Maybe frieght is moving again and it could help my business."

Think of the amazing success story up on the line in the Poconos. It was severed for years thanx to Conrail. Then D&L took over, restored the tracks to better operating conditoin, built up a little business here and there, and now the entire corridor is booming. Businesses are contacting D&L asking for a siding, moving their companies closer to the railway, etc. Oh, and Steamtown runs their trains over the line, too.

That's where I'm going with all this.

username2, why so concerned about this? No money out of anyone's taxes and gets more trucks off the road, the latter being a rather popular trend these days. After all, what is it to you if a private company came in and did something without public money? Happens every day.

Unless, of course, you a simply a NIMBY, as the thought of anything rolling down the Newtown line fries your cookies. A little transparency here would do us all a lot of good. If you are indeed a card-carrying NIMBY/homeowner whose home backs up the Newtown line, perhaps a harder push of the realtor on the question of whether or not trains could ever run through your backyards was in order at the time of purchase.

I'm also confused.

pistolpete66 wrote:by law, SEPTA cannot deny a freight carrier rights to any of their lines

pistolpete66 wrote:Conrail and all frieght related activites were kicked off the line in summer of 1981 by SEPTA

If SEPTA can't deny freight carrier rights then how did SEPTA kick freight related activities off? Wouldn't the law you mention have stopped SEPTA from kicking freight off regardless of what else SEPTA wanted to do?

I think that what pistolpete is trying to say here is that a freight company doesn't need to jump through the hoops that SEPTA would need to in order to reactivate the line. If you think about it, government funding (or a subsidy) requires a load of studies that take years before it can be qualified to receive federal money. Not only do those studies take time, but also money. Since the freight operators are not government-owned, Pete is arguing that they don't have to meet these ridiculous requirements to open a line.

However, Pete, SEPTA still owns the line. The freight operators would need to buy it off SEPTA first. [fantasy]If a freight railroad were to approach SEPTA about buying the Newtown Line to reactivate service to a few freight customers, SEPTA should sell it to the freight railroad for $1 with the condition that it be electrified and passenger trains be permitted.[/fantasy] That is the only way your scenario would work, in my opinion.

Also, where in the law does it say that SEPTA can't deny freight carrier rights?

Thenk you, R3 Passenger. I do tend to fly off the ol' handle. You pretty much said translated my rant.

SEPTA owns the line, but they also own the Bethlehem, Stony Creek and West Chester lines. CSX and East Penn pay SEPTA to operate over the first two lines, while Amtrak pays SEPTA to access the quarry in Lenni. No need to buy the line from SEPTA, and SEPTA will never sell the line as leasing it provides cash for them. They also have made it clear that they do not want to expand their rail network in any form (not just the Newtown line).

The tracks on the Newtown line themselves are only 25+ years old. SEPTA sunk $$$ into the line in 1981 and 1984. A freight carrier would need to fill in washouts and replace the ties. Track speed does not have to be fast here, unlike a passenger operation.

I think the law is more a PA law (I recall seeing it online somewhere). Not so much SEPTA denying freight carriers, but if a frieght carrier says they know an interested customer in, say, Southampton, and would like to utilize the line, SEPTA cannot say no because they are restricting private interested from improving local economy.

Gentlemen, please. Keep the decorum at a high standard.

username2 wrote:My overall point is that there is no way any sort of train could run on any portion of the Newtown line in the foreseeable future. You need to build the line first! It's gone. I may not know much, but I know that much. I ride through Bethayres every day on my way into town, and I have for 20 years. The Newtown line is gone. Statements that suggest otherwise (such as your suggestion that freight runs be made on the Newtown line) are, at best, ill-informed.

The line is not gone by any means, but rather quite intact, minus the trail section between Bethayres and Rockledge. The line is more buried than gone, but the rail infrastructure is very much there. It does indeed need considerable work to run even a basic freight operation, but pistolpete66 did make a good point which has been documented. SEPTA made track upgrades before and after their rapid transit operation.