No Hope for Newtown

bikentransit wrote:I'm not even sure what non sequitur is but ok.

A non sequitir is something, normally an interjection, that has nothing to do with a topic of conversation. English class over.

SEPTA owns the entire line, including a few former station sites. They still own the station site in newtown, but only one branch of the wye that was there. The rest of the wye is on private property. They also own part of the the former yard site that served the now gone agway.

Legally the line is out of service, not abandoned. If it were abandoned legally, any portions with trails etc would have to be purchased outright. That has not happened.

I still have hope for service restoration. The big issue is that it'd have to be done as one whole chunk at once, because no single station between fox chase & newtown added up would garner the needed rider numbers. That, plus you want to rebuild the track beds & replace any bridges at the same time, that way once everything is done, service can commence along the whole line on the first day.

25Hz wrote:I still have hope for service restoration.

So do I

25Hz wrote:SEPTA owns the entire line, including a few former station sites. They still own the station site in newtown, but only one branch of the wye that was there. The rest of the wye is on private property. They also own part of the the former yard site that served the now gone agway.

Legally the line is out of service, not abandoned. If it were abandoned legally, any portions with trails etc would have to be purchased outright. That has not happened.

I still have hope for service restoration. The big issue is that it'd have to be done as one whole chunk at once, because no single station between fox chase & newtown added up would garner the needed rider numbers. That, plus you want to rebuild the track beds & replace any bridges at the same time, that way once everything is done, service can commence along the whole line on the first day.

That's where you're grossly wrong. The Reading Company Trustee deeds for the Newtown Line property were discovered missing in the 1970s whenever ownership changed from Conrail to SEPTA, the latter who holds the Newtown line property on a quitclaim deed — a legal instrument used to release one person's right, title or interest to another without providing a guarantee or warranty of title. SEPTA later informed the press they will not indemnify any leasor in the event of a challenge to the Conrail/SEPTA quitclaim deed. In other words, if a landowner wants the land back, no trail and no tracks. SEPTA has been quiet about this for many years because of the huge legal and financial ramifications. It is also part of the reason why they continued to balk at restoration. It is really not their fault, but they were never ones to own up to something.

There is little reason to suggest current landowners near the line in both counties will not become informed about the Federal ruling and the pending trail in MontCo. This is very serious.

I thought I had read somewhere that Conrail had no interest in acquiring the branch, so SEPTA went ahead and purchased it outright from Reading. Then Conrail only operated service on it under contract with SEPTA.

Also, PA-TEC's newest aim for Newtown seems to be:

A: Scorched earth "if we can't have a train we can't have anything"
Or
B: Hope that some judge would put forth an edict that the only way SEPTA could maintain claim to the line is to restore service and hope that that would force SEPTA's hand in moving on restoration.

The only way to get service restored is by prodding county and municipal officials, and seeing if we can't get some kind of grant tossed our way to do something other than state the obvious, which is that it will take a lot of $ to get from where we are now to an operational status.

SEPTA has so many problems, like lack of proper canopies and shelters at stations, to crumbling platforms (part of the platform at bristol gave way under my feet last time i was there), to bridges that need replacing, and on top of all this you have basically brand new silverliner 5's freezing up in winter, and a physical plant that could keep the chiropractors in the 7 counties area in business single handed.

I do think those things should come first, then take that time to make our move(s).

I think today's Philadelphia Inquirer article provides answers to a lot of questions about who has responsibility and ownership for and of the line:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/break ... trail.html

Probably further controversy will ensue, but I'm just the messenger, not expert on this.

I love how SEPTA goes out of their way to state "there are no plans to do so".

25Hz wrote:The only way to get service restored is by prodding county and municipal officials, and seeing if we can't get some kind of grant tossed our way to do something other than state the obvious, which is that it will take a lot of $ to get from where we are now to an operational status.

SEPTA has so many problems, like lack of proper canopies and shelters at stations, to crumbling platforms (part of the platform at bristol gave way under my feet last time i was there), to bridges that need replacing, and on top of all this you have basically brand new silverliner 5's freezing up in winter, and a physical plant that could keep the chiropractors in the 7 counties area in business single handed.

I do think those things should come first, then take that time to make our move(s).

i disagree. septa should pursue federal funding for extensions that add riders to existing lines which should improve the system. the reality is septa has no credible plan for all its stations but hasnt come to grips with the fact that it cant maintain and upgrade all of them. worse their complete stations approach means each station is astronomical.

The ideal station once NPT comes online would simply be 2 high platforms, a pedestrian tunnel/bridge, a shelter with those hotlamps, and proper walkways from the surrounding area. Beyond that, its a waste unless preservation of existing historical buildings comes into the picture.

SCB2525 wrote:The ideal station once NPT comes online would simply be 2 high platforms, a pedestrian tunnel/bridge, a shelter with those hotlamps, and proper walkways from the surrounding area. Beyond that, its a waste unless preservation of existing historical buildings comes into the picture.

Why do you say that? NPT doesn't change anything about our weather patterns or passenger comfort.
SEPTA thinks long-term (arguably too long term for some of us!); if SEPTA was interested in eliminating station buildings Primos would not have one.
If the ticket office model is dumped, new stations will still be built with waiting rooms. In fact, provisions are already being made to keep waiting rooms open with door access for NPT cardholders.

I commute every day from a shelter station, and while the heat-lamps would be welcome, I see no need for a building being built that wasn't already there. I would much rather have a pedestrian tunnel.

If SEPTA finds itself flush with cash and in a good state of repair, having expanded to all the key OOS branches, then you can talk about gold-plating stations. In the meantime, I'd rather it went to the meat and potatoes and expansion.

It's important to note that the main reason why the cost of renovating many of these stations is so high is due to the accessibility requirements. High platforms are one thing, but when you have a station on a steep embankment, the cost goes way up!

The lack of ADA compliance should be seen as a reason to replace these stations, not a reason to avoid it. If all the stations were high level, you could then purchase equipment that doesnt require stairwells notching into the frame. Also boarding/alighting would be faster, schedules could be tightened, and delays cause by weather etc would be lessened a bit.