NHRHTA gets interesting a'gin

Mr. Weaver,
My Uncle who you knew, I.B. Miller was a tower operator for the NH. I for one always look forward to your posts. I like many others, do thank you for you taking your time to post of your experiences either with the New Haven, PC, MN or Conrail.
In my collection ,I have many NH items that was collected over the years, both by riding the NH and given to me by my Uncle and friends of the family who also worked for the NH. But I also have PC & Amtrak ETTs that my Uncle used up to his retirement in the 80s. Even though I'm a NH fan, those items he gave to me are important ,not just that they were his ,but part of the history of railroading.

I worked in the industry for 41 years. I have been a "train lover" for many years both before the start of my career and since
my retirement in 1997.
I refuse to be told what I can and can not post on the New Haven or any other site. On here I will try to stay within the topic
at hand but occasionally one item will run into another. I tend to sometimes tell a little more than others do but I like to
explain a little of the background of something. I also think it is interesting to tell things that happened subsequent to the
period in question. In the case of the New Haven I did not lose my interest in the New Haven Railroad after December 31, 1968 but rather have followed with interest the doings of Penn Central, Conrail, Amtrak, Providence & Worces, Housatonic
and the other outfits that are presently conducting operations over tracks that once were the late and great New Haven
Railroad. If some do not like that, I am sorry but that's the way it is.
I think the person who originally took exception to my posts has a motive behind his comments and sometime in the future
I may decide to bring out in the open his probable reason(s). There may be more than one issue behind this as well.
I will not answer any questions on this and will not discuss it on here further at this time.
In short, railroading in Southern New England and Southeastern New York State on December 31, 1968 and in many ways they
actually got more interesting as time went on.
As for "kooks and oddballs", the hobby like lots of others I suppose, has had them for many years, I will not mention any
names. One of them as wacky as he was had talent for good photography and I always respected him for that.
I always got along good with RESPONSIBLE railfans BUT there were some whom I did not like and often I didn't make a secret
of that fact either. During the last year of the New Haven in 1968 I set up a couple of Budd Car excursions on various lines
of the New Haven both of which are now gone for good and on the letters that I mailed out to those invited to participate I
plainly stated that we would have none of the "kooks and oddballs" who are often seen on these trips. These trips were not
set up by a club but by myself and I did not want anybody on them who could connect to me in any way. The railroad was my
employer and the crews on these trips were not only employees of the railroad but also people whom I had known and worked
with for many years and I was not going to allow somebody on these trips who could cause embrassment to me or to my
friends who were riding these trains. These trips had a very limited capacity and nobody would want somebody who did not
fit to be present among us. This was my oblication to those who put up the money to operate these trips. If somebody has
a problem with my remarks on this one, I am sorry but they stand on their merits. There are some posters on these forums
today whom, I am sorry to say, I would not want to be seen with on a trip today.
All of you please, no offense intended.
Noel Weaver

Noel:

I can't see anyone faulting you for setting the parameters for an excursion that you were personally responsible for in its organization. No worse that a couple of good friends going on a trip and not inviting so and so because.....

And expressing the reasons in this forum should not attract belittling comments. Discussion with a barb at your particular point of view at worst, but that is the nature of this forum.

The problem with "open" organizations such as this, historical societies, museums which rely on a volunteer component is you don't know who you are going to get and to a great extent accommodate their needs. From personal experience, I've seen volunteers range from just shy of autistic, manic depressives, irresponsible louts, a danger to everyone, NASA engineer equivalents and people who will give the shirt of their backs for 'the cause'.

The question is where to set the boundaries and how to accommodate [most] all and how to easily show the door to the undesirables. What constitutes an undesirable is open for debate and depending on the circumstances of the organization. But, other than being a complete dolt or menace to society, differing views have to be accommodated, not necessarily because we are commie, pinko, tree-hugging liberals, but because it makes everyone more aware and give pause to thoughts. To cut off debate, act reactionary or parochial is just another way of saying we are a clique & don't need your type here - bugger off! And, you know what, they are right. Remember the Wobblies, WCTU or John Birch Society [or was it the Birch John???] - gonzo and good riddance. OK - a political analogy, I don't want to have politics intrude here, I've seen it on other forums & it serves no purpose.

If NHRHTA was to be from modelers, by modelers, and for modelers - so be it & have the mission statement revised to say "to promote the modeling of the New York New Haven and Hartford RR, its predecessors ranging from the dates of 1829-1968. If the modelers want to take over the organization - so be it. Put it to a vote of the membership and be done.

Maybe the membership would appreciate something more dynamic - I don't know, but if you don't ask, you won't find out.

CannaScrews wrote:Noel:

If NHRHTA was to be from modelers, by modelers, and for modelers - so be it & have the mission statement revised to say "to promote the modeling of the New York New Haven and Hartford RR, its predecessors ranging from the dates of 1829-1968. If the modelers want to take over the organization - so be it. Put it to a vote of the membership and be done.

Maybe the membership would appreciate something more dynamic - I don't know, but if you don't ask, you won't find out.

Unfortunately with this organization, the membership has nothing to say about its mission, operation, officers nor anything
else for that matter. It is the only one that I belong to that the members do not elect the directors nor the officers. This
is not going to change because the present people in control are not going to allow it to happen, not now, not in the future
and probably never until the organization finally fades away.
Noel Weaver

Discussions wander from time to time, but I think we know well enough when we have left the topic completely. This forum software lets me separate and move topics if need be, but they wont be lost forever.

I was born one year after Conrail started. I will leave it up to the folks who actually saw the New Haven and its successors in action to determine what they feel a "New Haven topic" is and is not.

-otto-

At very least this group provides a fascinating "case study" of the pursuit of needless "purity" by single railroad historical society. When the application of a new coat of paint and different lettering to a former New Haven Railroad locomotive or car permanently bans that equipment as a subject of discussion, you could argue that the group's interest in railroading goes no deeper than a coat of paint.

MX

mxdata wrote:At very least this group provides a fascinating "case study" of the pursuit of needless "purity" by single railroad historical society. When the application of a new coat of paint and different lettering to a former New Haven Railroad locomotive or car permanently bans that equipment as a subject of discussion, you could argue that the group's interest in railroading goes no deeper than a coat of paint.

MX

It is pretty obvious that the modelers and toy buffs have taken over this outfit. The only reason that I have renewed this
year was for the magazine which still has interesting stuff in it. I no longer participate in their discussions nor will I go
there to answer questions either. I am helping with an article in an upcoming issue but when that project is finished, I will
no longer provide any help of any kind for them.
They will not have any access to the stuff in my collection in the future either, I am making sure of that.
They can go their way and I will go mine. I am not going where I am not welcomed.
Having said that, I will continue to post some on here in railroad language "as required".
Noel Weaver

I have also noticed that doing things to help out that group usually just results in criticism, so why bother with them.

Notice the current discussion of "Surviving New Haven RR Stations" on the NHRHTA with postings by some folks who have previously objected to the discussion of surviving New Haven Railroad equipment by others.

MX

I got an e-mail from Omar from which I quote:

"There is a bit of sea change happening at NHRHTA behind the scenes.

The red team was to have retired from the field, but I've noticed that the stake has not been applied properly.

It still may not be safe to go in the water.....

Ahhh, sorry for the mixed metaphors, er semaphores, - you get the drift.

Said one Dromedary to the other - do you take one hump or two??"

End of message.

We now return you back to your regularly scheduled program.....

A good indicator that the stake has been applied properly may be a change in certain NHRHTA discussion entries from red text to black and a return to normal text size.

MX

I'd say that if you feel you get a good value for the price of your membership, then there should be nothing to keep you from joining.

If you feel the current leadership needs to be replaced, then it's always possible to have yourself nominated as a candidate for election.

I'll tell you though, from experience, "It's lonely at the top." The first time you stick your neck out, you may find the farmer waiting in the wings with his hatchet.

This is not a commentary on the NHRHTA directly, but with all volunteer groups in general.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:I'd say that if you feel you get a good value for the price of your membership, then there should be nothing to keep you from joining.

If you feel the current leadership needs to be replaced, then it's always possible to have yourself nominated as a candidate for election.

I'll tell you though, from experience, "It's lonely at the top." The first time you stick your neck out, you may find the farmer waiting in the wings with his hatchet.

This is not a commentary on the NHRHTA directly, but with all volunteer groups in general.

-otto-

I will remind all on here that the leadership/BOD with NHRHTA does not get elected by its members. It gets appointed by
existing members of the BOD and the membership if you want to call it that has absolutely nothing to say in regards to the
operation of this group or in its BOD or leaders either. That's the way it is run and I do not think it wil change.
Noel Weaver

Noel:

Yes, I fell your pain.

How can this come about you ask? Simple - paranoia, parochialism and lack of communication with the membership.

I adhere to the policy of slow change of leadership [not as slow as the Catholic Church with its dictates about 500 years too late, e.g. apologies to Galileo], but with the ability to filter out the "wild mood swings " of a membership whose active members comprise a very small percentage.

I've seen this happen in many historical/museum organizations over the past decades - and, for the most part, nothing good has come of it.

Having a good continuity and VISION of a volunteer organization is a matter of open-mindedness and communication of the EVER CHANGING vision. It is my opinion that ANY organization has to change its vision and scope along the way. A great example is the Boy Scouts.

So, where are we in this discussion. Simple - change or die. Adapt or be gone from any relevance in this astral plane

How many times do you want to be whupped upside de haid before you get it.

Now, with NHRHTA and their leadership succession, it may take a concerted effort of the membership to affect change. Or, depending where the entity was incorporated [I hope it's not Alabama] - most states have to approve of the method of appointing/electing directors/trustees - and - perhaps, it may be the case that NHRHTA has not kept to the 'letter of the law' and has run on tradition. I don't know, but I'll leave it to the ACLU if they want to get involved.

Now Otto - do you really want to play "whack-a-mole"? Every organization has its trying times, and it is usually the person at the head that accumulates the most lumps.

The question is are the lumps deserved.....

Rave on - coo coo ka choo

Noel Weaver wrote:I will remind all on here that the leadership/BOD with NHRHTA does not get elected by its members. It gets appointed by
existing members of the BOD and the membership if you want to call it that has absolutely nothing to say in regards to the
operation of this group or in its BOD or leaders either. That's the way it is run and I do not think it wil change.
Noel Weaver

Oh. Well, that explains why I never saw an election ballot while I was a member...

CannaScrews wrote:Now Otto - do you really want to play "whack-a-mole"? Every organization has its trying times, and it is usually the person at the head that accumulates the most lumps.

Not really. The only people who can solve any issues at the NHRHTA are those folks who make the decisions.

-otto-

The quest for "subject purity" pretty much guarantees that they will look at about the same material at their reunion year after year and when the current group of presenters die the supply of programs will dry up. Most people who are doing programs nowadays just can't afford the extensive research and assembly project time to put together a PowerPoint presentation that is only applicable to one railroad or one owner of a particular type of equipment. It just isn't worth the time and effort, you have got to get more than one or two showings out of an electronic program and not have to customize it for a different railroad every time you take it out. The single railroad groups that decree that everything shown to them must be pure and original only to their railroad are setting such a limited scope that most people with railroad industry or equipment builder experience just can't take the time to jump through all their hoops and over their hurdles to meet their requirements. Not just NHRHTA, a number of single railroad groups are this way.

The alternative is to show the same old magazines of 35mm kodachromes and faded ektachromes year after year after year. When you always show the same stuff you know it is still "pure" and can leave it in the magazine forever. I know of one guy who has been showing the same magazine of slides for 35 years now. He can do that, he only shows them to one railroad historical group. Why change anything if you can get away with not changing anything. It suits the subject purity requirements perfectly. Fungus and scratches on your slides? Not a problem, as long as they show the "right" paint scheme and lettering.

MX