New Ticket Collection Policy?

amtrakowitz wrote: The fare recovery ratio says it all.

I admit I know nothing about the fare recovery ratio. What about it says it all? Is it a ratio of fares collected vs the evaded fare estimate? Does it include the cost to collect the fares?

amtrakowitz wrote: Besides, NJ Transit trains do not have automatically-operated trap doors and the on-board personnel are needed.

Doesn't this just imply that they won't achieve as much reduction in personnel as they would be able to if crew didn't need to handle traps? Wouldn't this also imply that they could achieve greater reduction in personnel on lines that have high level platforms, such as the Northeast Corridor, which I assume tends to have more 12 car trains than other lines?
And wouldn't relieving the onboard personnel of needing to collect fares all the time give them more opportunity to devote their attention to maintaining safe train operation, including opening and closing traps?

amtrakowitz wrote: Apples and oranges. At traffic lights, if you fail to stop at the intersection when the light turns red, you're extremely likely to get in an accident, because that cross traffic is going to start moving; and you have to be the first car at the intersection too. Your likelihood to be caught when riding without a ticket on a POP system is way, way lower.

That's why I added "substitute any other scenario". How about parking meters? Do you consider that an honor system, or a proof of payment system with random inspections and hefty penalties for evasion?

amtrakowitz wrote: This would be my documentation.

ok, some points I found interesting from the link http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120203-40509.html you gave

Under the proposal, those caught for the first time without a valid ticket would have to pay €60. If they are caught multiple times, they could face increasing fines and criminal charges. Penalties are currently capped at €40.

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=EUR&To=USD says 1.00 EUR = 1.31588 USD
so the current maximum 40 euros=$52, proposed MINIMUM 60 euros=$78
If I remember correctly Riverline is $70 first offense, 1 and 3/4 more than Germany's maximum.
Is it possible the current high evasion level you say Germany has might be because penalties are too low?

The demand by the Association of German Transport Companies (VDV) is nothing new. In fact, in 2009 the association asked for similar fine increases, which were rejected by state transportation ministers.

Back then the VDV estimated that approximately three percent of passengers travelled without a ticket on local bus, metro and train lines. Now, that percentage has risen slightly to 3.5 percent, the organisation told the Süddeutsche Zeitung this week.

Again, I know nothing about NJT's fare recovery ratio. How much less than your link's stated high 3.5% evasion level is NJT's traditional Railroad ratio, and at what cost? In the absence of you saying they suffer from a high level I would have thought 3.5% was a low level, although of course it's higher than the approximately 3% your link says they had in 2009.

Passaic River Rat wrote:Velociraptors will now be used as ticket collectors.

That explains this poster in the Amtrak crew room!

ThirdRail7 wrote:

Passaic River Rat wrote:Velociraptors will now be used as ticket collectors.

That explains this poster in the Amtrak crew room!

Ha. They incorrectly spelled "immediately." Jt, was this you?

thank you for helping get us back to the thread's real topic. Unfortunately 5 feet is under the height requirement
http://www.threadless.com/submission/13 ... k_The_City
http://www.peaydesigns.com/images/Coffe ... 20City.jpg

amtrakowitz wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Since all stations now have TVMs, it could be easier to have a voluntary (self-enforced) "honor" system. NJT Light Rail already does so and does some other commuter lines.

Corrections needed here:

• Proof of payment fare collection is not voluntary.
• Proof of payment is enforced by uniformed agents.
• Proof of payment is not the "honor system."

POP is very much the "honor system". The only way you can say it is not is if fare agents are present on the system at all times, checking all passengers; they are not.

An honor system does not have fare agents. POP does.

Germany, long famed for the proof-of-payment system on almost all of its public transit, is suffering from a high level of fare evasion currently

Are there places (particularly in Europe) where fare evasion rates are high? Definitely. That's not the fault of the fare system, it's because the governments there choose not to enforce strictly: either because of a misplaced sense of social justice or because the management thinks it's too much hassle.

If enforcement is consistent enough, as it is on the US commuter rail systems that use POP (e.g. Virginia Railway Express, Caltrain), fare evasion is no worse than we have here. How many of you have seen riders on peak trains not offer a ticket unless asked, hoping the conductor will overlook them.

An honor system does not have fare agents

You are basing this claim on exactly what? Your personal definition? There are no other forms of fare collection that can make the claim of being "honor"-based.

Are there places (particularly in Europe) where fare evasion rates are high? Definitely. That's not the fault of the fare system, it's because the governments there choose not to enforce strictly: either because of a misplaced sense of social justice or because the management thinks it's too much hassle

Once you start losing significant amounts of revenue, it's not "too much hassle" to try and get the fare recovery up; and that may end up with a change to the fare collection system if it's found that POP enforcement outweighs fare collection in terms of labor costs.

How many of you have seen riders on peak trains not offer a ticket unless asked, hoping the conductor will overlook them

That's not fare-collection-system-dependent. And if the ticket expires that day or within a certain time period, it's useless for another ride afterwards. With the conductor-based system, you cannot organize online in order to time your journey to beat the fares as with POP.

Patrick Boylan wrote:...

Here's another fun thing about proof of payment. When I get off the Riverline, I toss my validated ticket into the recycle bin as soon as I can. I don't want inadvertently to reach into my pocket later and innocently double stamp an already expired ticket. It's possible, I know, that someone else might get that ticket from the recycle bin and get a free ride. Where does my responsibility as an honest citizen end, am I supposed to keep that ticket and dispose of it in a way that noone can reuse it?

you (or the velociraptor) should eat it. (sorry couldn't help myself)

Homer Simpson drools "Ooh, validated ticket".

mcmannors wrote:The only thing I am aware of is that on MARCH 1st (not April 1st, as previously stated), they want the on board surcharge to be charged at every station and in EITHER DIRECTION. Even at locations where there are TVM's on only one side, and the surcharge was waived on the other side until now. I don't think that affects the Northeast Corridor, since I believe there are TVM's on both sides at every station over there...

The e-mail from NJT with the link containing the advisory notice http://www.njtransit.com/sa/sa_servlet. ... oryId=2994 came today. The text of the advisory is below. Note that it states that the $5 surcharge will be applied to "all" tickets purchased on the train . . . and will be applied to "each" ticket purchased on board the train. Does this mean that the senior citizen and disabled exemptions have been eliminated?

"Purchase Tickets Before Boarding to Save $5: Ticket Vending Machines Available at ALL Stations - Tickets Purchased Onboard Subject to Additional $5 Charge - Effective Thursday, March 1, 2012
Ticket Vending Machines (TVMs) have been installed at all NJ TRANSIT rail stations. The new TVMs are available at all times, and accept cash, credit or debit cards.
NJ TRANSIT Policy requires an additional charge of $5 be applied to all tickets purchased onboard the train when a ticket agent or TVM is available at your boarding station.
As all rail stations are now equipped with TVMs, the additional $5 will be applied to each ticket purchased onboard for ALL trains from ALL stations beginning Thursday, March 1, 2012.
Please remember to purchase your ticket before boarding to save $5."

Customers at stations where theres a TVM on only one side (Glen Rock, Matawan, etc.) are going to be thrilled.

Do ticket vending machines that are only on one side work better than the ones that are upright?

Everyone: I now note the NJ Transit Rail ticket policy change that adds the $5 penalty charge to all on-board
ticket purchases because TVMs are now located at every station beginning on March 1st...

I remember someone posting what NJT Rail's lowest ridership stations are - What are the 15 lowest in the system?

I also want to compare this to the LIRR because they have a group of stations that are called "Exception" stations...
They are: Mets-Willets Point,Belmont Park (Tickets are sold at both during events); All 5 stations from Yaphank to Greenport
and Bellport,Bridgehampton,Amagansett and Montauk on the Montauk Branch...That's a total of 11...

The LIRR has deemed that these locations do not warrant the installation of TVMs because of either low ridership
or possible problems with isolated TVMs like vandalism...Passengers who board at those stations are charged "station fare"
without the on-board fare surcharge...

At all their other stations they have a minimum of two TVMs at each station regardless of use or ridership...
Is NJT installing more then one TVM at low ridership stations also? I believe that was for the redundancy factor...

I note that what NJT is doing is getting riders to use the TVMs placed at new locations by implemention of the
$5 penalty for all on-board fares...Will train crews still have the flexibility to waive the penalty if there are TVM
problems reported? In comparison the LIRR charges the higher on-board fare unless it is an "exception" station
regardless of TVM availability and to dispute the charge you must note the TVM number along with the date and
time for any possible refund...

Another thing that the LIRR has is a toll-free number concerning TVMs which is (877)LIRR-TSM (547-7876) which
is staffed between 7:30am and 3:30pm weekdays and is also available from the MTA's 511 phone service...
I have called in TVM problems to them in the past so they can be aware of any TVM troubles..
Does NJT have a similar contact phone number to report NJT Rail TVM problems? I have not noticed this...

Let's see how this all works out-and eventually if NJT chooses to remove any TVMs from any low-ridership stations
due to low ticket sales or any other factor...

MACTRAXX

I haven't noticed NJT having a toll free customer service number, let alone one dedicated to vending machines. If anybody knows that they do have a toll free number I'd love to hear what it is.

LIRR has 10 daily exception stations. NJT's 10 lowest ridership stations in 2010 (avg wkdy):

Stirling (88)
Wayne/Route 23 (88)
Teterboro (88)
Boonton (84)
High Bridge (70)
Peapack (44)
Mount Tabor (42)
Mountain Lakes (39)
Mount Olive (36)
Lebanon (27)

For comparison, the LIRR stations with TVM's below 88 persons/day (off season avg weekday 2006):

Medford (41)
East Hampton (39)
Southampton (26)
Westhampton (15)
Hampton Bays (11)

MACTRAXX wrote:The LIRR has deemed that these locations do not warrant the installation of TVMs because of either low ridership
or possible problems with isolated TVMs like vandalism...Passengers who board at those stations are charged "station fare"
without the on-board fare surcharge...

At all their other stations they have a minimum of two TVMs at each station regardless of use or ridership...
Is NJT installing more then one TVM at low ridership stations also? I believe that was for the redundancy factor...

Only the more heavily used stations on the Raritan Valley Line have more than a single TVM.