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New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

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New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by peconicstation
 
The train station that I use most of all is New London Union Station for regular weekend trips to Boston.

The transfer to and from Cross Sound Ferry is simple enough, as long as you do not get stuck waiting for a sometimes LONG
P & W freight train to pass.

There is a picture of the New London station in the 1969 book, The Commuter Railroads, and it shows a pedestrian bridge than once spanned
the tracks.

When was this bridge removed, and has there ever been a proposal to build a new one ??

Thanks

Ken

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by The EGE
 
Ken,

Historic Aerials shows the bridge in place in 1957, but gone by 1970. This matches the history of the station - it was considered obsolete in the 60s and only saved by being added to the NRHP in 1971.

When they were planning a few years ago to build the Coast Guard Museum adjacent to the station, part of the plan was a pedestrian bridge. The plan got killed by Cross Sound Ferry's opposition, and I've heard nothing about the bridge plan since.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by BM6569
 
I wish I'd get stuck having to wait for a P&W freight. lol I've driven to and taken the ferry many times and have never seen one. I did miss the ferry once due to a slow moving Amtrak MOW train though!

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Noel Weaver
 
Here in South Florida we have more crossings in one city than there are in the whold Northeast Corridor. I hear friends complaining of getting "stuck for a train". I always tell them you didn't get stuck for a train, you WAITED for a train. I can't believe you waited that long for a train in New London when the interchange between the P & W and NEC is pretty much in Willimantic these days instead of New London. I can't believe there is that heavy of a freight operation through that area at any time by either the P &W or the NEC. When you are trying to catch any public transportation whether it be a ferry boat, passenger train, airplane or even a bus or subway you need to allow plenty of time to effect your plan. I think you problem here is that you simply did not allow enough time to catch a ferry. That being the case you simply had to wait maybe an hour or so for the next trip, not the end of the world in my opinion.
Noel Weaver

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by The EGE
 
Noel,

Because the NECR to NEC connection is adjacent to the station, a freight can block the main for a comparatively long time - I was once trapped on the northbound platform for a solid 15 minutes as an NECR freight rumbled off their main, stopped, and reversed towards Groton.

New London and Mystic are, to my knowledge, the only stations on the Northeast Corridor where one cannot cross from one platform to another or to the station building while there is a train in the station. Every other station either has an overpass, underpass, or adjacent grade-separated street, or is a single-side-platform station. New London is particularly unusual in regards to the ferry.

I'm actually rather surprised that New London didn't get a bridge in 2001 when the high platforms were built. If new platforms are built just south of the current station (as some of us have speculated) to allow longer trains and M8s to be boarded, I suspect a bridge would be considered.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Noel Weaver
 
I don't think the NEC is equipped to operate on the Northeast Corridor. Their territory ends at New London Station. Maybe you were dealing with a P & W move but even then I don't think there is much left freight wise anywhere around downtown New London. The main interchange between NEC and P & W was moved to Willimantic in order to cut costs for both railroads and that is where it takes place today as well. I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by peconicstation
 
The EGE wrote:
Because the NECR to NEC connection is adjacent to the station, a freight can block the main for a comparatively long time - I was once trapped on the northbound platform for a solid 15 minutes as an NECR freight rumbled off their main, stopped, and reversed towards Groton.

New London and Mystic are, to my knowledge, the only stations on the Northeast Corridor where one cannot cross from one platform to another or to the station building while there is a train in the station. Every other station either has an overpass, underpass, or adjacent grade-separated street, or is a single-side-platform station. New London is particularly unusual in regards to the ferry.

I'm actually rather surprised that New London didn't get a bridge in 2001 when the high platforms were built. If new platforms are built just south of the current station (as some of us have speculated) to allow longer trains and M8s to be boarded, I suspect a bridge would be considered.
Ege:

Thanks for some of the background on operations.

I guess were the lucky ones when it comes to seeing these long freights.

Besides the LONG, SLOW, P & W freight that held us up in August (and was running on the dedicated freight track through the NL station area),
this past Monday, a moderately long P & W freight came through the station on the Northbound main (Amtrak) about 1:30 p.m.
This train did not delay anyone as it moved at a good clip, and was gone in a number of minutes.

That said, with New London being Amtrak's 4th busiest station in Connecticut, not to mention SLE service expanding to 7 days a week this year, and the number of attractions on the riverside (Cross Sound Ferry, Fishers Island Ferry, Seasonal Ferries, and the park that New London has built and expanded),
a pedestrian bridge is more than warranted no matter who builds and pays for it.

Ken

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by The EGE
 
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think the NEC is equipped to operate on the Northeast Corridor. Their territory ends at New London Station. Maybe you were dealing with a P & W move but even then I don't think there is much left freight wise anywhere around downtown New London. The main interchange between NEC and P & W was moved to Willimantic in order to cut costs for both railroads and that is where it takes place today as well. I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver
Noel: I believe it may have been a P&W freight; either way, it was distinctly switching between the NEC and the NECR at New London.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Ridgefielder
 
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver
Noel- I think he's specifically talking about a *foot* bridge connecting the EB and WB platforms at New London-- similar to the ones that now exist at Guilford and Old Saybrook.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Cosmo
 
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think the NEC is equipped to operate on the Northeast Corridor. Their territory ends at New London Station. Maybe you were dealing with a P & W move but even then I don't think there is much left freight wise anywhere around downtown New London. The main interchange between NEC and P & W was moved to Willimantic in order to cut costs for both railroads and that is where it takes place today as well. I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver
Noel,
with all due respect, you obviously don't live here anymore.
I see plenty of P&W freight action here, in Norwich, and it's all headed for NLON.
Nothing stops in Norwich anymore. There's no siding on the base, and there's only a few cars a week for Gales Ferry, so everything else is headed for NL from NOR.
There are several customers along the Shore Line for P&W between Mystic and Old Saybrook, not to mention the exchange between NR2 (or 3) and NH1.
Just because Willi is now open for interchange does not mean New London dried up and blew away.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by TomNelligan
 
Mr. Cosmo... but isn't there just one weekday P&W freight each way west of Groton, the job that goes to Old Saybrook and back? That's not especially heavy freight service through New London station.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Noel Weaver
 
Cosmo wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think the NEC is equipped to operate on the Northeast Corridor. Their territory ends at New London Station. Maybe you were dealing with a P & W move but even then I don't think there is much left freight wise anywhere around downtown New London. The main interchange between NEC and P & W was moved to Willimantic in order to cut costs for both railroads and that is where it takes place today as well. I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver
Noel,
with all due respect, you obviously don't live here anymore.
I see plenty of P&W freight action here, in Norwich, and it's all headed for NLON.
Nothing stops in Norwich anymore. There's no siding on the base, and there's only a few cars a week for Gales Ferry, so everything else is headed for NL from NOR.
There are several customers along the Shore Line for P&W between Mystic and Old Saybrook, not to mention the exchange between NR2 (or 3) and NH1.
Just because Willi is now open for interchange does not mean New London dried up and blew away.
You are exactly right, I do not live in Connecticut any more but I do keep in touch with what is going on there. I did not say that the P & W did not operate through New London on a daily basis but they do not do much if any business in that area any more. What was there in my days is simply gone like most of the rest of Connecticut. The P & W's main outlet to their operations in Connecticut is still through New London but what they do with the New England Central is for the most part no longer done at New London so the Winthrop Cove bridge today does not see too much use. For that matter I wonder how much is left on the New England Central at New London, I suspect there is not too much. Even in the New Haven days when they actually still had the overhead footbridge most traffic was handled from the station side of the passenger trains regardless of whether they were on track one or track two. Only mail and express at night was handled on the south side of the track on east bound trains and even then only during the night hours. This brings us to the issue of a cutout at New London and in most cases cutouts were the responsibility of the engine crews in the NHRR days but at New London the operator at Groton was responsible for cutouts at New London passenger station. An overhead footbridge at this location would be a very expensive affair as it would have to include high level platforms and on a curve at that, at least two elevators and a lot more. I do not see the city of New London coming up with the money for this and I don't think any other entity will either.
Noel Weaver

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Cosmo
 
TomNelligan wrote:Mr. Cosmo... but isn't there just one weekday P&W freight each way west of Groton, the job that goes to Old Saybrook and back? That's not especially heavy freight service through New London station.
Depends on the season. And no, not necessarily. Sometimes they will spend considerable time switching at New London, (the aforemened back and forth move across the access to the ferry,) and in the warmer months there is FPCH, sommetimes fifty or so cars of gravel bounnd for LI. There are the occasional blocks of aggrigate for TILCON as well.
Plenty enough freight action in NL.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by Cosmo
 
Noel Weaver wrote:
Cosmo wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:I don't think the NEC is equipped to operate on the Northeast Corridor. Their territory ends at New London Station. Maybe you were dealing with a P & W move but even then I don't think there is much left freight wise anywhere around downtown New London. The main interchange between NEC and P & W was moved to Willimantic in order to cut costs for both railroads and that is where it takes place today as well. I don't think there is an adequate amount of space to build a high level bridge over the tracks for traffic to the ferries so grade crossings will continue to exist in New London. If it is important to New London to have a bridge over the tracks then I guess New London will have to come up with several million dollars to build one and I don't think this is going to happen.
Noel Weaver
Noel,
with all due respect, you obviously don't live here anymore.
I see plenty of P&W freight action here, in Norwich, and it's all headed for NLON.
Nothing stops in Norwich anymore. There's no siding on the base, and there's only a few cars a week for Gales Ferry, so everything else is headed for NL from NOR.
There are several customers along the Shore Line for P&W between Mystic and Old Saybrook, not to mention the exchange between NR2 (or 3) and NH1.
Just because Willi is now open for interchange does not mean New London dried up and blew away.
You are exactly right, I do not live in Connecticut any more but I do keep in touch with what is going on there. I did not say that the P & W did not operate through New London on a daily basis but they do not do much if any business in that area any more. What was there in my days is simply gone like most of the rest of Connecticut. The P & W's main outlet to their operations in Connecticut is still through New London but what they do with the New England Central is for the most part no longer done at New London so the Winthrop Cove bridge today does not see too much use. For that matter I wonder how much is left on the New England Central at New London, I suspect there is not too much. Even in the New Haven days when they actually still had the overhead footbridge most traffic was handled from the station side of the passenger trains regardless of whether they were on track one or track two. Only mail and express at night was handled on the south side of the track on east bound trains and even then only during the night hours. This brings us to the issue of a cutout at New London and in most cases cutouts were the responsibility of the engine crews in the NHRR days but at New London the operator at Groton was responsible for cutouts at New London passenger station. An overhead footbridge at this location would be a very expensive affair as it would have to include high level platforms and on a curve at that, at least two elevators and a lot more. I do not see the city of New London coming up with the money for this and I don't think any other entity will either.
Noel Weaver
Point made and taken, Mr Weaver. :wink:
That being said, a bridge was installed at Old Saybrook. Sure, it was expensive (aand it's cold and drafty up there too, but...) so is New London's situation so different from OSB's that the comparison is nil?
I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm just asking.

Re: New London Station Pedestrian Bridge

  by The EGE
 
OSB is in the middle of some tangent track; Acelas can pass at 110mph. New London's top speed is 25mph for passing due to the curve. So a bridge at Old Saybrook (constructed 2001) was a necessity, while New London would merely be convenient. I repeat, though, that such a bridge would be a very good idea. That is particularly true if more SLE trains get extended to New London as per the SLE master plan; in that case, some may start laying over on the third track at the station.
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