New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

Each day, thousands upon thousands of tons of sand are trucked from the various sand pits in south Jersey to northern New Jersey and parts of NY and PA. Most of these trucks haul thousand upon thousands of tons of stone to south Jersey.

While such a short haul is generally priced out of the markets by the railroads, I'd imagine running unit trains north of sand, and unit trains south filled with stone would, in such great volumes, be at least marginally profitable.

I'm not holding my breath though...

Well, I just got back from the Whiting area to take a look at the progress of the clearing today. The ROW is completely cleared between the former Clayton sand quarry in Woodmanse north to County Rt 539. They even caught that little group of trees on the north side of the Savoy Blvd/Mt Misery Rd grade crossing. Figure its a total of 6-1/4 miles complete in about 3-1/2 weeks. Looks great to just to see the old tracks stretching off into the horizon.

I drove over to the Buckingham Rd grade crossing. Buckingham is a dirt road at that point. I think I was able to observe indications that a Hi-Rail vehicle accessed the tracks at that point due to the indentations in the dirt but the rail itself looked rusty as always. I suppose a small Hi-Rail vehicle (if that is what we thought we previously observed a couple of weeks ago) would be too light and move too slow to take the rust of the rails? But I would figure that the use of a company that has a Hi-Rail vehicle means someone is working with a railroad construction related company as opposed to Jed & Jethro's tree service whose work may or may not be railroad oriented

As best as I can tell, no work north of Rt 539 has been done at all(perhaps they need special permission to continue into the heart of Whiting?).

I also travelled down Savoy Blvd to the bridge over Rt 72. No sign of any work at all.

I can't comment on the article that PRSL1972 saw, but my thoughts on what I observed seem to indicate that, if the purpose of the ROW clearing is to truly restore rail service, it appears to be focused on serving the sand quarry. I would have thought that if SRNJ was involved the work would have originated either down near Winslow or started up in Lakehurst. To start in Woodmanse doesn't make a whole lot of sense, construction-planning wise. If someone was thinking of a tourist/dinner train, I would have thought they would need an area near the end of the line by the sand quarry to install a runaround track to get the locomotive moved to the other side of the train. By the quarry, it just doesn't look like the area is available.

Isn't there a bridge over water in the Lakehurst area somewhere that would need to be addressed or are those bridges further south on the Southern more towards Vineland?

A high rail truck wouldn't do a dent on the rust on there - MAYBE you might be able to see a streak of lighter rust, but nothing more than that.....the surface would be slightly smoother though, with crushed debris on the railhead

Even locos and trains running over really rusty rail don't shine them up immediately - it takes several passes of the locos and cars to get the rail to even show a little bit of shine!!!

Thanks for the report!!! I wish it wasn't so far away, id love to go and explore

The mystery continues..............

Jt, shouldn't your signature read "Leaves Slip?"

I drove through Winslow, the Southern up to the curve of Spring road seems like it has been recently cleared of debris, but beyond that I have seen nothing new north of Winlsow. Question, is Woomancie a town or just a railroad junction, or am I simply spelling it wrong? I am having a ton of trouble finding that location on google earth, can anybody help?

It is spelled Woodmansie.

Check out Clayton Sand and Block's website for directions to the pit. The people who operate it are really quite nice, seem to enjoy showing you around the facility if you ask nicely, and would probably be more than happy to explain what, if anything, they have to do with the operation.

Remember though, it is an active sand pit with incredibly heavy truck traffic. Just drive in the front gate, and ask the lady in the scale house if it is okay to view the property or ask questions.

Not to be a wet blanket...

The Woodmansie pit is under constant threat of closure by the Pineland's Commission. They rule the area with an iron fist and would probably frown upon the return of the railroad, though I certainly hope I am wrong.

Perhaps giving the commission a call and seeing what, if anything, is happening would be a good source of information.

rrbluesman wrote:I drove through Winslow, the Southern up to the curve of Spring road seems like it has been recently cleared of debris, but beyond that I have seen nothing new north of Winlsow. Question, is Woomancie a town or just a railroad junction, or am I simply spelling it wrong? I am having a ton of trouble finding that location on google earth, can anybody help?

Woodmansie is a name for a portion of Woodland Township, Burlington County. As just a name for a portion of the Township, Woodmansie has no legal standing.

To the best of my Knowledge, the SRNJ has nothing to do with the work.
As for the brush being cleared down in Winslow, that was done in the beginning of the summer. They went from Winslow to Vineland and the entire Salem Branch.


Brian

thanks for clearing up what woodmansi is and is not for me.

BrianM wrote:To the best of my Knowledge, the SRNJ has nothing to do with the work.
As for the brush being cleared down in Winslow, that was done in the beginning of the summer. They went from Winslow to Vineland and the entire Salem Branch.


Brian

Hi,

I'm new here, I couldn't help but notice. The Salem Branch has not had brush cut in at least 10 years, unless it has been done in the last month or so without my noticing. I got quite a scare once coming across the tracks at Cedar Lane this summer, the train was right there, but I couldn't see either direction until I was on the crossing itself. The locomotives down there all have scratches and dents and stuff from the trees growing so low and so close to the tracks.

They should send the guys who are cutting this line to the Salem branch to take care of business. It looks like they are doing a great job.

Jay

Could this be a "hush hush" return of the Blue Comet? LOL Would be nice though...

I made another run out to the Whiting area to look for progress. the work crew has changed location. After finishing clearing the ROW northwards to County Rt 539, they flipped over and spent this past week cutting trees southwards from Heritage Minerals. They cleared just about 2 miles of ROW south of the Heritage Minerals grade crossing and as of lunch today, are about 1/4 mile south of Wranglebrook Rd. and working towards Whiting.

The 3 man crew is on the tracks parallel to Manchester Blvd. They have their white pick up (hi-rail) and are pushing their wood chipper (also in hi-rail configuration). I caught up to them on their lunch break to say hello. I didn't want to be too forward so I complemented them on their work progress and just asked a couple innocuous questions.

1. They work for Phil's Tree Service. On the internet, I found a Phil's Tree Service out of Jackson just up the road from Lakehurst NAS.
2. Their intention is to clear the ROW all the way up to Lakehurst.
3. Clayton hired them. When I said that I thought Hansen had bought the Woodmanse location, they just shrugged their shoulders.
4. All that they would really say is that Clayton was "just fixing up the ROW" and gave an ambiguous response as to whether it was to return the tracks back to active service. Although, I gotta admit that that is alot of money to spend if they weren't intending to do such. The only other thought I had is that if the tracks have been OOS since around 1988, maybe Clayton has to do this improvement to keep from losing the ROW at the 20th Anniversary mark of the OOS date?

To see the extent of their work a little closer up, I parked my car on Manchester Blvd, near RT 70 and did a little exploring of the ROW. Very thorough job. They cut the ROW back to its original width.

As a side note, while out there, I ran into a couple of hunters on the ROW who were telling me that the deer population in the area has been noticeably reducing and the amount of Coyote sitings have dramatically been increasing with direct evidence of the Coyotes aggressively hunting the deer.

I spun up the road to the Heritage Minerals grade crossing and verified that nothing further north has been touched yet.

CJPat wrote:The only other thought I had is that if the tracks have been OOS since around 1988, maybe Clayton has to do this improvement to keep from losing the ROW at the 20th Anniversary mark of the OOS date?

Thanks for the update. It does seem like a resumption of rail service may be forthcoming.

Interesting conjecture about the 20 years, but clearing the ROW isn't necessary if that is the concern. The NJ 20 year statute of limitations for adverse possession or easement by prescription would apply (if it does to railroads at all, they may have an exemption) only if someone else was using the right of way continuously for that period. If so the only thing necessary to reset then clock for another 20 years would be to chain it off here and maybe walk it or take a 4x4 along it where feasible.

Rules governing property control may not be applicable in that this is a Right of Way and not a standard property. Since the ROW was sold off to Clayton, it is possible that standard railroad exemptions may not be be transferrable.

It wouldn't surprise me if some protective clause exists that stipulates if a ROW appeared "abandoned" by the private entity as judged by, say, 20 years of inactivity or improvement, the rights of use granted under a Right of Way would expire and control/use of the property reverts to the control of the original grantor (government). It wouldn't make sense to me to grant right of use in perpetuity in the face of apparant abandonment (I don't know if a company like Clayton would be subject tot he rules of the STB). Although if taxes are paid on the property, that too could be seen as showing an active interest in the property.

All this, of course, is pure speculation.