My ideas for new LIRR routes

Here are some expansion ideas I have for the LIRR:

North Shore Line: Branches off the Port Washington line at Manhasset and runs down Northern Blvd (NY25A) and along Muttontown Rd to Syosset.

Nassau/Suffolk line: Branches off the Main line at Forest Hills (Queens) and runs along Jewel Ave and 73rd Ave to Cunningham park. The runs along the Northern State Prkwy to East Hills. The line then cuts across East Hills and Rosyln to meet up with the Jericho turnpike in Jericho. The line intersects with the Port Jefferson line at Landia where a new transfer/communtiy station will be built. The line then goes down to the Northern State Prkwy and runs along the NSP to NY347. Line then runs along NY347 and NY25 to Wading River Rd past Brookhaven State Park.

South Shore Line: Branches off the SE Queens LIRR ROW at Linden Blvd and runs down Linden Blvd and the Southern State Prkwy. Line then runs up the West Hempstead Branch ROW to Hempstead Turnpike. Line then runs along Hempstead Turnpike to Farmingdale, meeting up with the Ronkonkoma Branch.

Hempstead Branch extention: The Hempstead Branch is extended south to Jerusleum Ave and runs along it until the SSP. Line then runs down the SSP then cutting back across to Jerusleum Ave to Massapequa. Line then turns south and ends at Massepequa LIRR station.

Cross Island Line: line runs from Oyster Bay down the Oyster Bay branch. Line connects to the North Shore and Nassau/Suffolk branches. The the line runs south from Hempstead to Jones Beach.

All new trackage is double-triple tracked and electrified.

Other ideas:

Double track and extend Port Jefferson line to Wading River. Electrify to Port Jefferson

Double track Montauk line to Southampton. Make ROW improvements. open closed stations. Electrfiy to Patchtouge.

Extend double tracking and electrfication on the Ronkonkoma branch to Manorville. Build new stops at Holbrook and Manorville.

Electrify the Oyster Bay branch.

Use West Hempstead branch to serve the Jamaica-Penn Station/GCT main line. open new local stops at Rego Park and Elmhurst.

use the Long Beach and Far Rockaway branches to serve SE Queens. New stops at Cambria Heights, Springfield Gardens, and South Jamaica.

Open new Jackson Heights/Corona stop on the Port Washington Line.

Well, are any of these suggestions good?

Your suggestions are fine if you and the others do not mind a 500 per cent
increase in ALL of your state taxes (start with income tax and work down)
to pay for all of this stuff.
Noel Weaver

Regarding the parts along Hempstead Tnpk, Northern Blvd, or Linden Blvd:
I assume you intend to put the line underground as a subway. If not, where do you intend to put the line. Those roads are crowded already with no room to widen.

What happened? Couldn't get enough attention over on the strappies board? Well, here I go again:


"North Shore Line: Branches off the Port Washington line at Manhasset and runs down Northern Blvd (NY25A) and along Muttontown Rd to Syosset. "

Hmmmm.....this sure sounds alot like my idea from a few years back. If money were no issue, than this line would be a great line. I gave up on this idea b/c it is so close to impossible that it's not worth the effort(unless, like I said, money was not an issue).


"Nassau/Suffolk line: Branches off the Main line at Forest Hills (Queens) and runs along Jewel Ave and 73rd Ave to Cunningham park. The runs along the Northern State Prkwy to East Hills. The line then cuts across East Hills and Rosyln to meet up with the Jericho turnpike in Jericho. The line intersects with the Port Jefferson line at Landia where a new transfer/communtiy station will be built. The line then goes down to the Northern State Prkwy and runs along the NSP to NY347. Line then runs along NY347 and NY25 to Wading River Rd past Brookhaven State Park. "

It's amazing how many times I can explain to you the numerous problems with this problems and how you wont even recognize those problems. Tisk tisk.

Alright, let's see. By the time you hit Jericho Tpke, you're far too close to the mainline to really do anything.
And my favorite part of your whole plan again, that NSP/347 route. Have you even bothered to look at a map like I suggested? If you had, you would've realized that this is only miles away from the PJ line and would be a waste of money and effort. It would compete with the PJ line for the same riders.

If you want a line to Wading River, just re-extend the PJ line. The entire ROW is still clear.


"South Shore Line: Branches off the SE Queens LIRR ROW at Linden Blvd and runs down Linden Blvd and the Southern State Prkwy. Line then runs up the West Hempstead Branch ROW to Hempstead Turnpike. Line then runs along Hempstead Turnpike to Farmingdale, meeting up with the Ronkonkoma Branch."

Again with paralleling lines. This is even worse. You're maybe at most 3 miles away from the Babylon line. How the hell do you expect this line to get any passengers?

And again. Why not just use the Central ROW? It's totally clear and would take far less effort and money to build on. Building on NY24 would require an el structure or a subway, and would require prolonged road clossures during construction. Yes, using the central ROW would require SOME road clossures, but it wouldn't last nearly as long as they would on NY24. Why? B/c on the central, you're just crossing the road. Using NY24, you're paralleling the road. That means there'd always be a part of it closed.


"Hempstead Branch extention: The Hempstead Branch is extended south to Jerusleum Ave and runs along it until the SSP. Line then runs down the SSP then cutting back across to Jerusleum Ave to Massapequa. Line then turns south and ends at Massepequa LIRR station. "

Again with the SSP. What is the point of running a line only a few miles from the Babylon line? It's not like the main line where it needs some way to reduce congestion. And how would you extend the Hempstead line? Only way is cut the line back and go underground, cuz there's no way in hell you can get to NY24 at grade.


"Cross Island Line: line runs from Oyster Bay down the Oyster Bay branch. Line connects to the North Shore and Nassau/Suffolk branches. The the line runs south from Hempstead to Jones Beach. "

How do you intend on getting the line from Hempstead to Jones Beach?


"Double track and extend Port Jefferson line to Wading River. Electrify to Port Jefferson "

I still say electrification is a good 20 yrs away. Double tracking and extending to Wading River though is definately something we could use now.


"Double track Montauk line to Southampton. Make ROW improvements. open closed stations. Electrfiy to Patchtouge. "

Double tracking sounds good to me. However, again, I think electrification is still about 20 yrs away.


"Extend double tracking and electrfication on the Ronkonkoma branch to Manorville. Build new stops at Holbrook and Manorville. "

Why the hell are you going to electrify to Manorville when as of now, there are only 8 trains per weekday on the line? Electrification is atleast 25-30 yrs away. And if anything, Riverhead would be the next logical terminal for electrification. As for double tracking, Ronkonkoma would be a fine end point for now.


"Electrify the Oyster Bay branch."

And the purpose of that would be? The line is too curvy and hilly for electrics to really perform much better than the diesels. And they don't need electrification to go to NYP. They can just run the DMs.


"Use West Hempstead branch to serve the Jamaica-Penn Station/GCT main line. open new local stops at Rego Park and Elmhurst. "

What do you mean by this? You mean that plan you had to run trains from OB to NYP via Valley Stream? I thought we were done with that plan.

Re-opening Rego Park is definately a good idea. However, if you want an Elmhurst station, just re-open the one on the PW line.


"Open new Jackson Heights/Corona stop on the Port Washington Line. "

Just re-open the Corona and Winfield stops on the PW line.

why not just extend the PJ branch to Miller Place or Wading River and make and extension to NYA's Calverton Spur and while we are at it lets relay the manorville brance, it is all crazy never happen never will!

How many times must we go through this. My two cents is this thread should be locked/deleted because this is the fourth or fifth time this has come up in 2004. None of the above will probably happen until I am an old man sitting on a porch talking with Emfinite on what NYA trains we chased when we were younger-and that is a real long time away. You think those lines/routes should be expected when the other day the MTA approved another fare hike! They have enough trouble running the lines they have with less money, so they say. Maybe if the higher officials were not paid 200k+ a year, they could look into it.

I have an idea:
Why don't we tear up every major road on Long Island or better yet the whole United States and replace it with rail? This way people will have no choice but to use the railroad for all their daily needs including going to work, going to school, going to church, going to temple, going to the mall, going to the dentist, going to the post office, going to 7-11, going to the bathroom and then what roads are left will be totally useless because they would be cut off from all the criss-crossing tracks and people will give up driving and the price of gasoline falls to 50 cents but that won't matter because no one drives anymore, and because there's no emissions we have reversed the effects of global warming and ended the possiblity of another ice age which would be damn inconveinent.
I'm all for it, let's start tomorrow!

I would stick to a more logical and conservitive approch,

Rebuild the CRR from Garden City ---> BethPage, where you rejoin the main for the run to KO & maby montauk.

(5-6, new ststions)

[[[[for that Jones beach idea ( build a spur off the nely rebuilt CRR, and run down the meadowbrook pky. [both el and at grade]. when you reach the beaches you can stay at grade right down the meidian [just zigzag around the water tower.)
NOTE: only mentioned as a shits and giggles idea, for thoes intrested...]]]

for the PJ, stick with a reconstruction to wading river. maby make it Rule 261. then you can eletrify it to Northort then to PJ, and finally to wading river if needed,

(3-5, New Stations)

for the montauk, stick with rule 261, then you can eletrify out to PD then SK as demand requires.

(re open closed stations on the "as needed" basias)


all eletrification will be done on a "as needed basis" based upon what proper studies of the lines show.

the above plan(s) that I proposed would bring the LIRR ROW's to almost pre WW2. status. +/- some things here and there.

never mind the MTA budgit problems.
Step 1) get rid of the unnessary mounts of "hire up's"
""2) hire real acountents
""3) find where the hell all the money is going.
""4) stop any form one waistfull / unnessary spending.
also tho needed due to lac of parts n so on for the M1/3's STOP all M7 deleverys and Subway deleveries ect.. untill this money mess is cleaned up.

i bet someone upstairs in the MTA is getting filthy rich, and when he gets beusted i hope all hell breaks loose on that lousy bastard.
and if it is not somone getting rich on this, im proud, now lets find the freaking problem.

im shure that almost everyone here can agree w/me the LESS service = Less riders, = Less Money for the "More Trubble Ahead" parents of the LIRR.ect. work with what you got now, then improve. dont rip up anything else. caus your digging your grave deeper then it is.

by the time this gets done, CSX will be running freight through the cross harbor tunnel to NJ, and thru the Port Jeff-Bridgeport Tunnel to the north... yeah... what are we smokin'... that will happen the same day we are allowed to say the word "Christmas" without offending some non-Christian... and a Democrat wins the White House.... and NIMBYs welcome %$#@ railroads in their little villages...

Since you're from Bensalem, what do you know about Long Island?

" then you can eletrify it to Northort then to PJ"

Look, if LIRR is absolutely going to electrify, they should just go all the way to PJ. I'm certainly not in favor of it(atleast not now, maybe in 20 yrs when it'll be worth it), but I'm even more opposed to waisting money to build a new yard at some new midpoint when that'll be obsolete just years after.


"for the montauk, stick with rule 261, then you can eletrify out to PD then SK as demand requires. "

I say 25-30yrs from now there'll be enough demand to electrify to PD. After that, the next end point should probably be Southampton.


"also tho needed due to lac of parts n so on for the M1/3's STOP all M7 deleverys and Subway deleveries ect.. untill this money mess is cleaned up"

Agreed. The fact that LIRR is even considering designs for an M9 already is mind blowing. Hold off on any new deliveries, make the necesary system upgrades(minor things, like switches and signals and any other emergency work). Cut spending big time.


"that will happen the same day we are allowed to say the word "Christmas" without offending some non-Christian"

I don't know anyone like that, including me. Anyone offended by that really needs to get a grip.


But you guys are right. It would take something of biblical proportions to get any of this crap to happen.

Look, I'm not some pro. I'm just like you. I love trains and I want to see my favorite commuter rail system expand to attract more riders. That's all. Some of the ideas might not be the absolute best (i'll definelty rethink the Hempstead expansion) but it's a start. Anyway, I'm thinking of trying to make the South Shore line run about equal distance between the Babylon line and the Main line. any ROW suggestions?

The thing is, running it too close to the Babylon wont really do much. That line is fine. It's not struggling with congestion. The main line, however, is. So I think a good ROW to settle at would be the existing CRR ROW. Yes, it's much closer to the main than it is to the Babylon, but the main is what needs the help. And plus, it passes right through the Nassau Hub, along with some really built up communities, like Levittown.

my point exatly Nimby,

that line is more of a logical reconstruction then distruping service up and down the main. also the central could even be graded for dubble tracks but in its first few years maby be able to run single tack with passing sidings at the stations until behind Nassau college, where it can run 2 tracks to washington ave.
clnt rd.
----------------/--------------------------------/--\-------------------------------
---------------/-- ---------/-----\------------------------------
frnkave ___ ^ - - wasng, ave
- "garden" -
- -
- -
- -
- -
- -
-

theres a simple idea if how "HC" could be rebuilt.
to alow WB trains acess to hampstead as well as stright through. same goes for EB trains. EB's would have to cross over at franlin ave, then back to the EB side at washington ave.
(tho if possible try to run the line dubble throuhg the new "Garden")

there is alot of potential. lets not waist it.

sorry guys. i guess my idea of typing out the interlocking in garden city failed. im shure ya can get the jest of what im thinking.

NIMBY, and any one, come up w/ some improvements.