MOM Rail Service

E-44 wrote:I did. They cleaned it up a little bit, though

Great letter, E44! Too bad it makes sense

I can think of at least 3 differnet schools on the Coast Line that are either right next to the tracks, or within about a block or two of the tracks - Beers St. School is right next to the tracks, Long Branch High School is a block away and in MIddletown, the school is about a block away, but in fairness, the tracks are in a cut down there. I believe there is also a few schools very close to the tracks west of Long Branch, including Asbury Park HS, whos field is right next to the tracks.

Property values are skyrocketing, or at least in this recession, holding steady along rail lines, in particular the MandE, with Midtown direct service, Montclair, the River Line towns and really any town near any kind of mass transport service. In my town of Leonardo, Im surrounded by ferry service in Atlantic Highlands and Belford, and we just had a revaluation here (this year) and lets just say, we were all sort of surprised at the numbers that came back (there has been several newspaper articles about it, in particular my neighborhood in Leonardo), and according to the "experts" the reasoning our values did NOT go down was because of the bus service on route 36, and the proximity to the Ferrys to NY.

In regard to the one persons comment in the article, would they be happy if there was a stop in town then? If so, that seems like a reasonable consession then for the MJ route. Careful what you ask for! hahahah

While running down the NEC yesterday, I took note of how much work owuld be needed to add a track along side of track 1 up to a station say near Jersey Ave, but I was thinking more by the JandJ property. I counted 3 bridges would need to be built and 1 overpass would need a new retaining wall. Also, each of the catenary poles would need to have their guide wires moved or raised for a track and train to clear underneath them.

However, one of the biggest issues is the big drainage ditch that runs along most of the route. It would require a new ditch to be built or a retaining wall built along most of the distance (west of about MP37, down to MP40.5 ish) Still, not THAT big of a deal.

Unfortunately, if the track was put along side of track 4, there would be very little work, as there is a lot of room on the ohter side of the cat poles without a drainage ditch along most of the route. however, that would require the bridge or tunnel, adn bring us right back to where we were.

GSC wrote: Government has no problem with eminent domain when they need a block of houses to build a condo complex

[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Maybe not jersey, but still...

radioboy wrote:

GSC wrote: Government has no problem with eminent domain when they need a block of houses to build a condo complex

[citation needed]

I think he is referring to Long Branch and the Beachfront North development versus the "MTOTSA" group, who refused to leave and fought adn eventually seemed to come out on top, as they are still there. Hovnanian i believe was the developer and IIRC, they finally gave in and said they wouldn't sue the town for not being able to build what the town contracted them to (the town plans included those blocks).

However, I believe it was about 100 other houses were condemmed and knocked down as part of the "redevleopment" of a "blighted" area.

the problem with that use of eminent domain was that it was for a private gain, not a public use. The city was saying that it was a public benefit by getting rid of a blighted area and improving the whole town by doing so, but that is sort of stretching it a little bit........

Anyway, back to MOM, eminment domain could be used if it was deemed necessary, but it really wouldn't be anywhere because all the ROWs are intact. Maybe in some small instances for a station location or something, some property would need to be taken, but i doubt it would be very much. That is what eminent domain is for - taking a private property for a public use, in this case, a railroad station or whatever.

So what's it gonna be, Monmouth Jct, Redbank, Matawan, South Amboy??? Or still just a lotta talk no action and miss any "shovel ready" funding?

How about we go from Lakehurst to Farmingdale (and while we're dreaming, let's go Lakehurst to Toms River). Then while that's being built, everyone can argue about which direction to keep going in.

radioboy wrote:How about we go from Lakehurst to Farmingdale (and while we're dreaming, let's go Lakehurst to Toms River). Then while that's being built, everyone can argue about which direction to keep going in.

i totally agree. get the money and start at the south end where we're all in agreement. My personal opinion would be to ram monmouth through, maybe it should be voted on as a state-wide referendum, if possible. Hell if they can get the money have them get rid of the grade crossings at georges rd. in s. brunswick, so. river rd by exit 8a etc. There is a lot more potential for inter-jersey riders with the MOM route through monmouth jct. than any of the others.

An Opinion from the HUB newspaper

http://hub.gmnews.com/news/2009/0611/letters/007.html

Anti-MOM rail line unacceptable to freeholder
By now, everyone should know all the reasons for building the MOM rail line, but here is the explanation again:

Taken together, Monmouth, Ocean and Middlesex counties are home to more than one in five New Jersey residents. These counties have been the major engines for population growth over the last 30 years, with the majority of growth being concentrated in the suburban municipalities along the Route 9 corridor in northern Ocean and western Monmouth and Middlesex.

In this area, the car is king and roads are choked at peak commuter hours, because there is no mass transportation alternative other than bus service on Route 9.

The purpose of the MOM line is to take some of the pressure off of these roads. But it is also far more than that. It provides a real opportunity for those one in five New Jersey residents to have rail access to not only New York City, but to the educational resources in New Brunswick, the state capital in Trenton and the city of Philadelphia.

This option (Lakehurst to Monmouth Junction) provides the greatest range of opportunities for people in the major growth corridor in the state and, while initial costs may be high, as population continues to grow and the use of resources expands accordingly, the cost per person will reduce over time. All of this makes the MOM line the right choice for New Jersey.

But now, NJ Transit has decided to support the anti-MOM alternative. This proposal meets the needs of Ocean County residents bound for New York, but it does nothing for either western Monmouth County or Middlesex County residents, and provides no access to either New Brunswick or Philadelphia.

It also does unquestionable harm to the densely developed residential communities of eastern Monmouth County - particularly Red Bank.

Red Bank Mayor Pat Menna's plea for help to oppose this alternative shall not go unanswered. A 20 percent increase in train traffic will exacerbate already difficult road conditions and make an already constrained parking capacity in Red Bank far more problematic.

Red Bank is one of the most successful suburban centers in New Jersey, and is currently wrestling with its own share of development issues. For external forces to suddenly impose unplanned impacts on this community for the primary benefit of residents of another county is wholly unacceptable.

When the costs and benefits are weighed in terms of opportunities lost and damages done, the anti- MOM option is far too expensive to be considered, even with a someday-western spur. It is shortsighted and irresponsible. Discussion of rail options should cease until new leadership with a broader statewide vision is put in place.
Lillian G. Burry
Monmouth County Freeholder
Liaison to the Monmouth
County Planning Board
Freehold Borough

I don't see what Middlesex's big deal is the line travels mostly through warehouses as it is now on the MOM section. It goes through Jamesburg? Big deal, I'm sure the train stopping in Freehold is going to screw more traffic up on Main St there than in Jamesburg. Monmouth Junction is the only way to go since Matawan is off the table it would seem.

The good folk in Jamesburg have been led to believe that the passage of trains through the center of town will:

- Prevent emergency vehicles from performing their duties
- Tie up traffic all day long
- Create noise and pollution
- Lower property values
- Destroy the downtown business area
- Smash school buses
- Chase dogs, cats and children up trees

That speaks either to the "wisdom" of their politicians or the fears of the electorate or both. Those two elements usually combine to form a volatile compound.

E-44 wrote:The good folk in Jamesburg have been led to believe that the passage of trains through the center of town will:

- Prevent emergency vehicles from performing their duties
- Tie up traffic all day long
- Create noise and pollution
- Lower property values
- Destroy the downtown business area
- Smash school buses
- Chase dogs, cats and children up trees

That speaks either to the "wisdom" of their politicians or the fears of the electorate or both. Those two elements usually combine to form a volatile compound.

Obviously NJT needs to get a better P.R. firm. there are too many examples of rail stops adding value to property they're near in NJ (and I don't need to name any for the fine folk on this thread) to easily refute each and every one of the points listed above. I hate to say it but I hope Redbank & others fight this boneheaded route.
God Save The MOM!

For external forces to suddenly impose unplanned impacts on this community for the primary benefit of residents of another county is wholly unacceptable.

How is this argument acceptable for Red Bank but not for Jamesburg or South Brunswick? How come everybody pretends that this same situation when applied to their own town wouldn't have them in apoplectic fits as well?

I hear the argument that "the tracks were there before they were!", and wonder how all those same people who live near a small, seldom used sleepy airport would react when told that it was going to be turned into a regional reliever and the approach path goes right over their house. Oh, Calamity!

I'm not against the line being built to Midway, but I can certainly understand the objections. Jamesburg gets a couple trains a week coming through at 10 mph and flagging every crossing. The two schools in town are on separate sides of the tracks, K-5 on one side and 6-8 on the other, and all kids walk. There is currently no fear of those tracks and really no reason to. Could the same be said when there are 10 passenger round trips per day at 40+ mph? There are 4 road crossing and 2 pedestrian crossings within a mile right in the middle of town. Going from 0 to 480 horn blasts per day? I can see why that might be a bit concerning.

Most residents rely on street parking for their own cars and don't want the borough of Jamesburg to become a Park-and-Ride for all of the surrounding countryside. The alternative is to not have a station in Jamesburg. A moment of thought shows why many would consider this a lose-lose situation.

Yes, there would be traffic problems as the major route from the NJT exit 8A to any points east are through Jamesburg. I'm sure other communities would suffer traffic problems as well, but to dismiss one is to dismiss them all. If the attitude is "so what" for Jamesburg, then why not "so what" for Red Bank?

Calling anyone who objects to any alignment a NIMBY is a bit hypocritical considering everybody is a NIMBY depending on the subject.

Personally, I won't consider moving to a town that lacks rail service. Two things that I'm looking for are a walkable downtown with some character, as opposed to just strip malls all over the place, and a passenger rail station within walking distance. Towns like Freehold and Jamesburg would be much more desirable, imo, if they had rail service. As it is, I wouldn't live there.

haamster wrote:

For external forces to suddenly impose unplanned impacts on this community for the primary benefit of residents of another county is wholly unacceptable.

How is this argument acceptable for Red Bank but not for Jamesburg or South Brunswick? How come everybody pretends that this same situation when applied to their own town wouldn't have them in apoplectic fits as well?

I hear the argument that "the tracks were there before they were!", and wonder how all those same people who live near a small, seldom used sleepy airport would react when told that it was going to be turned into a regional reliever and the approach path goes right over their house. Oh, Calamity!

I'm not against the line being built to Midway, but I can certainly understand the objections. Jamesburg gets a couple trains a week coming through at 10 mph and flagging every crossing. The two schools in town are on separate sides of the tracks, K-5 on one side and 6-8 on the other, and all kids walk. There is currently no fear of those tracks and really no reason to. Could the same be said when there are 10 passenger round trips per day at 40+ mph? There are 4 road crossing and 2 pedestrian crossings within a mile right in the middle of town. Going from 0 to 480 horn blasts per day? I can see why that might be a bit concerning.

Most residents rely on street parking for their own cars and don't want the borough of Jamesburg to become a Park-and-Ride for all of the surrounding countryside. The alternative is to not have a station in Jamesburg. A moment of thought shows why many would consider this a lose-lose situation.

Yes, there would be traffic problems as the major route from the NJT exit 8A to any points east are through Jamesburg. I'm sure other communities would suffer traffic problems as well, but to dismiss one is to dismiss them all. If the attitude is "so what" for Jamesburg, then why not "so what" for Red Bank?

Calling anyone who objects to any alignment a NIMBY is a bit hypocritical considering everybody is a NIMBY depending on the subject.

Very valid point. Burry's Red Bank position is a kind of NIMBY-ism: Build it, but build it elsewhere. Kind of like the separate-but-equal argument in the '60's.

I don't know about the issues in Jamesburg, though. Would trains run down Railroad Ave. at 40mph? I'd guess it would be slower, especially with a station stop. They could also get quiet zones there as other towns have done. And you can't have a park and ride problem if there's no parking. 2-hour meters in the area for non-resident parkers solves that problem.

This is still about politicians who would rather pave every inch of Middlesex County as a favor to their financial backers than about serving the best interests of the public. No diffferent than in any other part of New Jersey. Just better-dressed.

If Jamesburg parents can successfully teach their children to stay out of the way of the heavy trucks rumbling down the roads in town, I would think they could teach them to avoid trains. Doesn't say much for their intelligence. That argument doesn't hold water.

Polution problem? Doesn't mass transit save overall fuel use?

I can't see "high speeds" being a problem with a station stop in town.

Just make sure not to use screaming wide-open-throttle F40s for power, there is a very valid noise complaint.

Nothing like beating the dead horse, right?