MBTA to remove seats from Red Line cars (Big Red)

Here's the problem.

It's not you're going to sit, or you're going to stand.

At rush hour, you're either going to stand crammed in next to 30-50 people you don't know, with no breathing space, and no possible way of making it to the doors of your stop,
or you might be able to ride standing up with a little personal space and possible something sturdy and conviently located to hang on to.

I am not sure if center posts can work, or should I say be allowed. The sight line to the ADA required announcement display would be blocked. It seems like I a one to two inch pole wouldn't be a problem but I am sure there is a code against it, I got yelled at for a half inch water pipe blocking a similar thing. Second, and I will have to ride an 01800 to see for sure, duct work in the ceiling. Placing a pole is easy, like hanging a widescreen LCD on a wall, but if you miss the wall stud you TV ends up on the floor. And if you hang enough people on the pole and something goes wrong you have a missile. So I don't thing they can just place poles down the center without a DOT or some other agency giving the OK.

JoeD

Looks like the seatless cars are now in service. I heard the following announcement that preceded a train around 8:25 this morning at downtown crossing. The announcement seemed to tell people NOT to use the middle two cars.

"Attention passengers, the next SOUTHBOUND train is a high capacity train. The middle two cars have no seats. Please use the front two cars or the rear two cars."

Once again the MBTA shoots itself in the foot...

FatNoah wrote:Looks like the seatless cars are now in service. I heard the following announcement that preceded a train around 8:25 this morning at downtown crossing. The announcement seemed to tell people NOT to use the middle two cars.

"Attention passengers, the next SOUTHBOUND train is a high capacity train. The middle two cars have no seats. Please use the front two cars or the rear two cars."

Well, a train arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush is heading against the rush-hour flow and is not likely to be crowded during the remainder of its trip unless there is a delay, so I actually think there is some benefit to alerting riders that the middle cars are seatless.

Also if you do put center stancions you wont get wheelchairs around them if an emergency arises and they need to evacuae through the car.

RailBus63 wrote:Well, a train arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush is heading against the rush-hour flow and is not likely to be crowded during the remainder of its trip unless there is a delay, so I actually think there is some benefit to alerting riders that the middle cars are seatless.

This is not alerting riders. This is telling them not to board. There is a clear difference.

RailBus63 wrote:Well, a train arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush is heading against the rush-hour flow and is not likely to be crowded during the remainder of its trip unless there is a delay, so I actually think there is some benefit to alerting riders that the middle cars are seatless.

Come on! Inbound trains become outbound trains once they go downtown. It was most certainly heading with the rush hour flow for half of the trip.

I used to commute on the Red Line for years. I'd squeeze onto a packed car, and my only option would be to put the palm of my hand flat aginst the ceiling in a attempt to brace myself. Again, it was better than driving. Since the T likes to operate trains slower than the passing traffic, and signals won't be timed for quicker trains, and since building longer platforms is prohibitively expensive, the cheapest way to increase capacity on the Red Line is to rip out the seats. The other option is to drop the price on the Commuter Rail that parallels the Red Line to make it the same, if not cheaper, but that would result in a loss of revenue.

Boston has been trying to be like New York for years now, from buying sports championships to skyrocketing real estate prices. This should come as no shock.

As far as the subway system is concerned, Boston and New York City have many differences, too many to name on this topic.

I don't know what part of the Red Line you rode on, but the speed the trains run on, especially on the above ground portions, the trains do go at a considerable speed.You may slow down for signals, interlocking's, slow orders, MOW work areas etc, but that is just common sense. More speed= more safety measures, upgraded track and basically you are looking at it will cost more $$ in the long run.

The Red Line trains, all fit on every station platform without any issues as they are designed for 6 car trains. Their would be no use in extending the platforms any more than they already are because their is no need!

MBCR and the MBTA are not going to "drop" commute rail fares so people have the option to take the commuter rail or red line to those stations where they both connect. The commuter rail isn't a rapid transit service, its purpose is to transport customers from Boston and to the outlying city's and towns which make it a benefit for them to not have to drive, or use I-93, I-95, I-495 daily, which are subject to gridlock in the AM/PM rush in certain sections.

So as you can see, Boston is not like New York, we are different in many ways. Remember, the MBTA was America's first subway system

GP40MC 1116 wrote:As far as the subway system is concerned, Boston and New York City have many differences, too many to name on this topic.

The commuter rail isn't a rapid transit service, its purpose is to transport customers from Boston and to the outlying city's and towns which make it a benefit for them to not have to drive, or use I-93, I-95, I-495 daily, which are subject to gridlock in the AM/PM rush in certain sections.

So as you can see, Boston is not like New York, we are different in many ways. Remember, the MBTA was America's first subway system

Points well made. New York and Boston have different objectives. New York is a city where few people relatively, have automobiles and generally rely heavily on public transport full-time. Boston is a city where most full-time residents have automobiles, with a commuting reliance on public transport due to heavy automobile traffic and parking issues.

"Considerable Speed" is a matter of opinion! If you rode on the Red Line in the days when the curves at Harrison Sq., Andrew and South Station were timed for 35 mph you wouldn't think it was fast. On the other hand, if you were the scheduler for Guilford, you probably think 25 mph is way too fast!. I belong to the first category, I remember how the line was designed to run, when they had to put up P(Power), C(Coast) and B(Brake) signs so the motormen on the 01400s, who were used to slower accellerating cars, wouldn't trip on the timers at those curves. And let's not forget that the South Shore Line was originally signalled for 70mph. 40 in the tunnels and 50 on the South Shore Line IS slow!

0600-0754 had a top speed of 45 MPH and could do it underground.
01400-01492 had a top speed of 55 MPH and could do it underground.
01500-01523 and 01600-01651 had a top speed of 70 mph and could do it on the long run to North Quincy.

GP40MC 1116 wrote:MBCR and the MBTA are not going to "drop" commute rail fares so people have the option to take the commuter rail or red line to those stations where they both connect.

The T has done that in the past, however. I remember when the lowest-price zone was Zone 1. The T created zones 1A and 1B with lower fares, specifically to encourage travel between inner stations and downtown Boston.

cpontani wrote:

RailBus63 wrote:Well, a train arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush is heading against the rush-hour flow and is not likely to be crowded during the remainder of its trip unless there is a delay, so I actually think there is some benefit to alerting riders that the middle cars are seatless.

Come on! Inbound trains become outbound trains once they go downtown. It was most certainly heading with the rush hour flow for half of the trip.

That's not what I was saying. I was referring specifically to the fact that the announcements were being made to passengers who would be traveling against the flow of traffic, since the train in question was arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush. If you are traveling from DC to Cambridge on a train that will have maybe 50 percent of the seats occupied, why would you want to travel in a seatless car?

GP40MC 1116 wrote:I don't know what part of the Red Line you rode on, but the speed the trains run on, especially on the above ground portions, the trains do go at a considerable speed.You may slow down for signals, interlocking's, slow orders, MOW work areas etc, but that is just common sense. More speed= more safety measures, upgraded track and basically you are looking at it will cost more $$ in the long run.

North Quincy to Alewife.

GP40MC 1116 wrote:Remember, the MBTA was America's first subway system

First doesn't mean best. New York and Philadelphia both run four-track express.

3rdrail wrote:Points well made. New York and Boston have different objectives. New York is a city where few people relatively, have automobiles and generally rely heavily on public transport full-time. Boston is a city where most full-time residents have automobiles, with a commuting reliance on public transport due to heavy automobile traffic and parking issues.

Plenty of people in Boston don't have a car, and driving there is a nightmare. The meter maids are infamous, and if they wanted to have a spinoff of Parking Wars, they could shoot it in Boston and the immediate suburbs.

Gerry6309 wrote:"Considerable Speed" is a matter of opinion! If you rode on the Red Line in the days when the curves at Harrison Sq., Andrew and South Station were timed for 35 mph you wouldn't think it was fast. On the other hand, if you were the scheduler for Guilford, you probably think 25 mph is way too fast!. I belong to the first category, I remember how the line was designed to run, when they had to put up P(Power), C(Coast) and B(Brake) signs so the motormen on the 01400s, who were used to slower accellerating cars, wouldn't trip on the timers at those curves. And let's not forget that the South Shore Line was originally signalled for 70mph. 40 in the tunnels and 50 on the South Shore Line IS slow!

0600-0754 had a top speed of 45 MPH and could do it underground.
01400-01492 had a top speed of 55 MPH and could do it underground.
01500-01523 and 01600-01651 had a top speed of 70 mph and could do it on the long run to North Quincy.

But no matter where you are on the line, it doesn't have the jackrabbit start/stops that you have on, say, Septa's Market Frankford El.

RailBus63 wrote:That's not what I was saying. I was referring specifically to the fact that the announcements were being made to passengers who would be traveling against the flow of traffic, since the train in question was arriving at Downtown Crossing during the morning rush. If you are traveling from DC to Cambridge on a train that will have maybe 50 percent of the seats occupied, why would you want to travel in a seatless car?

Most people wouldn't. But why make announcements stating how bad these cars are? People stand on the Red Line all the time. Going northbound during rush hour, the train practically empties out by Park Street. At that point, you'd have your choice of where to grab on, or, just switch cars at the next stop. But the T telling people to stay away from them, what do you think they're going to do when the train IS travelling in rush hour direction? Avoid them.

Credit the T for at least trying something different out. Their status quo (like on the Green Line) is overcrowded, slow service, while the price has more than doubled in less than a decade.

Has anyone ridden a Big Red train on the Red Line yet? I am curious to know if they are new trains, or simply retrofitted existing stock...

I am eagerly awaiting my digital camera in the mail, once that arrives I hope to snap lots of photos of the various oddities I encounter on the Red Line from Dorchester to Downtown Crossing during the week and around Cambridge during weekends. One area I am interested in is capturing existing remnants of former stations, former station names and other changes to the system which have not yet been updated around the system.