MBTA to remove seats from Red Line cars (Big Red)

They added a bar that runs underneath the windows where the seats used to be, so I don't think the situation in that regard is any worse or better than before.

If the cars are packed so tightly that people physically can't get to a place to hold on, it means the car is so packed that there isn't any room to fall down anyway...

jck wrote:They added a bar that runs underneath the windows where the seats used to be, so I don't think the situation in that regard is any worse or better than before.

My point is if you had standee poles for the people in the middle of the car you could accommodate more passengers(safely). Right now you are just moving the standees to the where the seats were. Not really helping getting more people into the cars in great numbers to make this project worth doing it.

Except that a standing passenger only takes up @ 1/2 the square footage of a seated passenger, so in theory, you have @ twice as much capacity with standees.

I understand that theory... I just think people are going to avoid those cars and pack the others

I can't help comparing them with cattle cars...mooo !!

http://www.trainxchange.com/images/Post ... Outfit.JPG

The old nickname for the 01400s!

The old London "Padded Cells" come to mind. Hey now that the seats are gone, can the windows be next on the chopping block! They are useless for telling what station you are at anyway!

Hay on the floor to absorb "spills".

3rdrail wrote:Hay on the floor to absorb "spills".

Good - then we won't need a car cleaning contract.

Now if we put a chain across the openings we could eliminate the doors, heat and A/C, and encourage people to move in - plus the car will be so noisy we won't need stop announcements!

Hahahahaha!!!!! In all seriousness though, the more that I think about it, the more that I'm convinced that we may not be far from the truth ! I think that all metal and few seats will intensify the "livestock experience". Also, we have seen the photos of the cars in a very pristine, shiny and buffed condition. But, what will you have in the real-world car where you have those free newspapers flapping all over the place, that flat-spot wheel rumble that sounds like a herd of cattle stampeding, and that feared and unknown liquid that travels down the floor closer and closer with the car's movement ? - a Cattle Car ! Imagine the stampede with people trying to avoid the "unknown liquid" run ? At least, now you can lift your feet off the floor ! The standee poles will be your only method of escape ! Hahahaha!!!!

OK - we have explored the negatives of removing seats to increase capacity.

What the MBTA needs to do is fix the Red Line!

Either make the signal system work as it is supposed to, or put the wayside signals back and give control back to the motorman! In the interim a flagman every 600 feet will do. Speed limits should be reasonable. 35 minimum (as designed) on curves except for the curve at Harvard - otherwise as fast as the cars will go!

Crawling into Ashmont is as dumb as it goes, just because the interlocking shows a low yellow. Go ride the No. 7! Yes there are delays, inevitable with those short headways, but it works more often than not! And yes, there are stops at 33rd, 40th and 46th, or Rawson, Lowery and Bliss if you wish - the trains just keep on coming! We could restore historic stops at Harrison Sq., Popes Hill, Neponset and Atlantic, and we would still have a longer average distance between stops!

Gerry6309 wrote:put the wayside signals back and give control back to the motorman! In the interim a flagman every 600 feet will do. Speed limits should be reasonable. 35 minimum (as designed) on curves except for the curve at Harvard - otherwise as fast as the cars will go!

Ain't happenin' Gerry. After the carnage of 2008 here and out west, any system with ATO in Boston is keeping it, for better or worse. If the money is going anywhere, it will be to ATO the Green Line. Now, to get back on topic, I'll just say - "Moo" !

3rdrail wrote:If the money is going anywhere, it will be to ATO the Green Line.

Unless you want to face the same issues SEPTA has with CBTC on the Subway-Surface.

Gerry6309 wrote:

3rdrail wrote:Hay on the floor to absorb "spills".

Good - then we won't need a car cleaning contract.

Now if we put a chain across the openings we could eliminate the doors, heat and A/C, and encourage people to move in - plus the car will be so noisy we won't need stop announcements!

There's a cleaning contract now?

The 1400's managed to carry rush hour crowds with 4 cars because they had long bench seating, which accomodated various sizes, spring loaded straps, and poles in the middle of the cars. Even 2 car trains could fit a large crowd. Taking seats out makes no sense, just duplicate what worked well in the past. It is curious the Red Line was chosen for the experiment, as the Orange & Blue lines are much worse during rush hour.

jck wrote:

-Garrett wrote:I can't wrap my head around this logic:
"There's more people riding the T, so lets have less seats, because that's what we need, less seats."

Let's see if this works:
"There's more people who are thirsty, so lets take away some of the water."
No?

Ok, lets try this:
"People are taller now, so lets make houses with shorter roofs."

Nope, still doesn't work...
Anyone?

Your analogies don't work. People don't need a seat to ride the T, like they need water to quench thirst. Anyone who rides the subway during rush hour knows that more capacity would useful, seats or no seats.

Those analogies work for me! After a long day of walking to get to a subway station, I'd rather sit, not stand. Tired people need seats, not to be squished fish. Why are we trying to make the MBTA like the MTA in NYC? Boston is NOT like NYC, nor should it strive to be, EVER. Making the MBTA like the MTA would not be a good thing.