Keystone Corridor Improvements

It would be easy to schedule trains through BROAD. during the day there's more than enough slack space. In the morning rush have the Keystone call in behind an R5 and then terminate it on the 0 track. In the evening pull the train out of one of the 5,6,7 stub tracks.

If there's no room at Suburban, I wouldn't mind seeing the trains layover at Roberts, make stops at North Broad, Temple and all 3 SEPTA CC stops. Who controls Suburban anyway, SEPTA or Amtrak?

It would be great to see the reintroduction of Keystone service to Suburban station. But I'm not holding my breath. My other concern is Amtrak's "upgrades" to this line. Whenever Amtrak upgrades something, local commuter trains (especially SEPTA's) get slowed down as a result. Are there any adverse impacts that SEPTA's already tortured passengers will have to contend with, like new speed restrictions/slow signals around Paoli and the like?

jfrey40535 wrote:If there's no room at Suburban, I wouldn't mind seeing the trains layover at Roberts, make stops at North Broad, Temple and all 3 SEPTA CC stops. Who controls Suburban anyway, SEPTA or Amtrak?

They keep stuff parked on 5, 6, and 7 now at Suburban anyway. And no matter what, an Amtrak move will have to cross over the entire railroad in at least one direction during both rush hours, thus holding up the works for a bit.

But to my point: If they're going to restore electric Keystone Service, how about going through to serve all stops to Temple as described above. And since Roberts Yard is at capacity during the day, just deadhead the train to layover on the "0" track at Newtown Junction. Have a SEPTA crew take over the train from the Amtrak crew at 30th Street Station.

On the other hand, you'd be alienating the through riders to/from NYP....

If you bring a train into O track in the morning, then out of 5/6/7 in the afternoon you can save the crossing over for the middle of the day when there's room.

On the other hand, you'd be alienating the through riders to/from NYP

Big deal. There's plenty of service between NYP/PHL, not between PHL/HBG. Not to mention, shortening the route might free up more equipment for more frequent service? The only problem of course is stations like CWH which is served only by the Keystone now.

Any word on how soon it will be done?

Jersey_Mike wrote:If you bring a train into O track in the morning, then out of 5/6/7 in the afternoon you can save the crossing over for the middle of the day when there's room.

But that train still has to depart from thr 0 in the mornings, necessitating a full-scale crossover move outbound. Likewise, the afternoon trains still have to cross the entire plant to get into 5/6/7. So no matter what, you're going to delay a few trains in the rush hours. It's inevitable.

Right now, SEPTA takes issue with it because they claim to have no storage room for Amtrak down at Suburban what with staging trains on 5/6/7 during the midday and overnight (and they actually do have more trains out of there now than they did back in early 1988 when Amtrak last operated from Suburban).

jfrey40535 wrote:

On the other hand, you'd be alienating the through riders to/from NYP

Big deal. There's plenty of service between NYP/PHL, not between PHL/HBG. Not to mention, shortening the route might free up more equipment for more frequent service? The only problem of course is stations like CWH which is served only by the Keystone now.

IIRC, the through service is what has helped the rising ridership levels on the Keystone Corridor. And you have to admit, it's a good thing, now that all trains are reserved, and the first connecting NEC train may not have space available when potential riders make reservations. The difference between through service, and having to wait an extra hour for the next NEC train means a lot to riders.

Despite what was said in the past, I have a feeling the through service will remain, even after electric operation is restored on the Keystones. But time will tell.

In short, Amtrak would have to do their homework. Some trains with the heaviest through riders can turn quickly at lower level 30th Street Station. Others can turn at Suburban station. A train can easily crawl the short distance to Suburban and back in the time it presently takes to change locomotives.

How well did the Keystone trains intermingle with SEPTA during peak hour periods before Amtrak abandoned electric service to Harrisburg?

Better off not going to Suburban because you have loads of Septa trains, subways and buses. You could even walk between the two stops, especially if the speed limit is very slow. Plus that involves extra turning.

The primary reason Amtrak will not call at Suburban is the same reason they will not run Empire Service trains to Grand Central: money. Just as Metro North owns GST, SEPTA owns Suburban. Amtrak would have to pay (ouch) SEPTA to serve Suburban, and they are much fonder of receiving access payments than paying them.

You would also have to rely on Septa dispatchers to operate Amtrak keystone service trains on time. Silverliner II was absolutely right, storing keystone trains on the stub tracks at Suburban Station involves tying up 20th interlocking and Broad interlocking, in effect, tying up SEPTA northbounds and southbounds in center city for a 15 mph move.

Another problem would be that the Engine would be facing the East end of Suburban Station on keystone service trains (unless they operate push pulls or have an engine on both ends), so now you have the additional time to have the crew reverse the train out of Suburban Station at SEPTA's convenience.

The primary reason Amtrak will not call at Suburban is the same reason they will not run Empire Service trains to Grand Central: money. Just as Metro North owns GST

The shuttle from Grand Sentral (sic) Terminal via bus was also unpopular—a rather unkempt commuter-trim GMC "Fishbowl". At the time, Amtrak was paying the MTA $5 million per year to use the 48-platform facility, IIRC. Then when they switched to the West Shore line, they had to spend $5 million to erect a fence when some trespassing youths were struck and killed by a passing train.

Actually, I believe GCT is technically leased to the MTA/MN for a 'long period' (like 99 or 999 years), and the station is actually owned by American Premire Underwriters (?), who is the corporate sucessor to the Penn Central. supposedly, the reason it closes at night is to retain rights as private property...