Hurricane Sandy

Jersey_Mike wrote:Even if Morrisville gets cut off by flooding in Trenton that means that Trenton Service will have to be suspended anyway so you might as leave all Trenton service trainsets in Morrisville.

Are you sure that's such a great idea? Even if Trenton's flooded there are other stations to serve. IF they were able safely to store Trenton service trains somewhere other than Morrisville they might still be able to serve Hamilton, Princeton Jct, etc...
That wasn't the situation in this case, there are many other problems besides trying to get equipment out of Morrisville, and all other things being equal I bet Morrisville is usually the best place for NJT to store its Trenton service, but I don't think it'll always be true that if Trenton itself is out of service that you automatically have to suspend the entire northeast corridor.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Even if Morrisville gets cut off by flooding in Trenton that means that Trenton Service will have to be suspended anyway so you might as leave all Trenton service trainsets in Morrisville.

The trains that get stored in MV run all over the railroad on every given day. Loosing 20 plus trainsets being trapped in Morrisville would cause havoc with other schedules on other lines, even if they weren't affected and were perfectly fine to operate. The entire electrified railroad would have delays and cancellations because of no equipment.

And yes, Kearny substation is out of service, severely damaged in the storm. They are running weekend schedules not necessarily because of a lack of equipment because of the flood, but rather because the remaining substations cannot handle any more trains than a weekend schedule into/out of NYP would allow, at least as of this moment in time.

I know this might be far fetched, but how about running a Dover to Hoboken diesel only schedule until the substations and catanary is repaired?? I'm think a similar rush morning inbound and evening outbound only schedule (similar to what is being run on the Port Jervis/Main line).. Aren't there at least 8 or 9PP sets still sitting in Port Morris that can handle this until everything is repaired???

If you don't fix the storm damaged to those cars, it's a lot harder to sell them. Presuming that there was storm damage (which I haven't heard publicized other than above in this thread).

blockline4180 wrote:I know this might be far fetched, but how about running a Dover to Hoboken diesel only schedule until the substations and catanary is repaired?? I'm think a similar rush morning inbound and evening outbound only schedule (similar to what is being run on the Port Jervis/Main line).. Aren't there at least 8 or 9PP sets still sitting in Port Morris that can handle this until everything is repaired???

The Kearney washout completely severed the M&E going towards both NYP and Hoboken. Plus Millburn-Summit is still impassable.

blockline4180 wrote:I know this might be far fetched, but how about running a Dover to Hoboken diesel only schedule until the substations and catanary is repaired?? I'm think a similar rush morning inbound and evening outbound only schedule (similar to what is being run on the Port Jervis/Main line).. Aren't there at least 8 or 9PP sets still sitting in Port Morris that can handle this until everything is repaired???

The M&E is the Hoboken Division's version of the NEC. Ridership is somewhat heavy during the day in both directions. I'm thinking that Dover-Hoboken (Broad Street until the line in Kearny is rebuilt) on a weekend schedule would do better for this line then just rush hour service once the downed trees are removed. The Morris Local Bus Routes are not absorbing the displaced train riders at all and I think most of those people can not afford to be taking taxis to and from work everyday.

Hoboken

According to

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/C ... 011976.php

"Port Jervis trains are running into Hoboken, but won't stop at Secaucus Junction."


Is that right. I thought November 9th was the earliest anything could operate at Hoboken?

Ken S. wrote:

blockline4180 wrote:I know this might be far fetched, but how about running a Dover to Hoboken diesel only schedule until the substations and catanary is repaired?? I'm think a similar rush morning inbound and evening outbound only schedule (similar to what is being run on the Port Jervis/Main line).. Aren't there at least 8 or 9PP sets still sitting in Port Morris that can handle this until everything is repaired???

The M&E is the Hoboken Division's version of the NEC. Ridership is somewhat heavy during the day in both directions. I'm thinking that Dover-Hoboken (Broad Street until the line in Kearny is rebuilt) on a weekend schedule would do better for this line then just rush hour service once the downed trees are removed. The Morris Local Bus Routes are not absorbing the displaced train riders at all and I think most of those people can not afford to be taking taxis to and from work everyday.

Okay, I hear ya, but do you think the ridership will be big if these trains make the Dover-Newark-Broad Street turns?? So then I am assuming people would then have the option of taking a bus or the Light Rail(if its running) from there to the Path?
If there is overcrowding at Newark- Broad like there was at Secaucus then that all might not work!

srock1028 wrote: The substation in Kearney was flooded and damaged. That is one reason why NJT we can't run more trains. One of the two North River Tunnels being OOS is another...

As of a day or so ago, 2 of the 4 East River tunnel tracks were also out of service. That's a big deal for NJT because they store a lot of their NEC trainsets in Sunnyside Yard in Queens during the day. If they can't do that, that cuts what they can run into NY Penn station.

Does anyone know the status or outlook for those 2 tunnels (and the outlook for the 2nd Hudson River ("North River") tunnel and the Kearny substation)?
JS
Edit 8:00 PM Nov 7: in the LIRR forum there was a recent post that said the 2 East River tunnels were still out as of noon today.

If the cars are useable(not waterlogged)they will be used for service,not left in a siding to rot.
With a good chunk of the arrows O/S due to wet motors,If it rolls,carry passengers,USE IT!!
NJT Mech Dept is way overloaded with work right now.

Bloomberg News wrote:On top of having to fix damaged tracks and an operations center ruined by floodwaters, New Jersey Transit’s biggest obstacle to restoring full service for 276,000 daily rail commuters may be finding cars and engines.

The Newark-based agency had 23 percent of its rail cars and 35 percent of its engines damaged or ruined by Atlantic superstorm Sandy, said Nancy Snyder, a spokeswoman. The agency hasn’t determined how many, if any, can be repaired, she said.

New equipment won’t be a quick solution, as about 330 unionized production workers went on strike Nov. 1 at the Bombardier Inc. (BBD/B) factory in La Pocatiere, Quebec, that builds the shells for the agency’s cars.

“Our full concentration is strictly on the restoration of service, and the ongoing recovery after this devastating hurricane,” Snyder said. “That’s front and center.”

Replacing rail cars isn’t as easy as borrowing whatever can be found. Rolling stock is often custom-made to accommodate a particular system’s tracks and signals. Parts of New Jersey Transit’s system run on electric power; diesel engines are required on others.

It generally takes years to finish orders built to specifications, like Bombardier’s 2008 contract with New Jersey Transit for 36 electric locomotives designed to haul multilevel commuter rail cars made by the Montreal-based manufacturer.

Through last year, Bombardier had provided 329 double- decker coaches to New Jersey Transit, according to the company.

Beg, Borrow
The U.S. Federal Transit Administration is speaking with transit agencies in other parts of the country to line up rail cars, buses and other equipment that may be available, said Meghan Keck, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Department, which includes the FTA.

The regulator will coordinate loans of rolling stock and technical experts to New York metropolitan area agencies if needed, she said.

Amtrak, the U.S. intercity passenger railroad, is negotiating with Via Rail Canada Inc. for extra equipment to boost service in New Jersey, Chief Executive Officer Joseph Boardman said Nov. 1.

Via Rail has contacted Amtrak “to offer its support,” Mylene Belanger, a spokeswoman for Canada’s national passenger train company, said in a telephone interview. It’s too early to give details on the possible outcome of the discussions, she said, declining to comment on whether Via Rail is also talking to New Jersey Transit.

Storm Damage
Amtrak probably would be able to move Via Rail equipment into place quickly, as the two carriers cooperate on Amtrak’s service between New York and Montreal. New Jersey Transit’s service between Trenton and New York, which resumed last week, operates on Amtrak’s lines.

New Jersey Transit has offered no timetable for restoring full rail service. Service resumed yesterday on the North Jersey Coast, Raritan Valley, Port Jervis and Atlantic City lines, with some restrictions. Bus service should be fully restored by today, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said Nov. 2.

Its rail operations center was flooded, ruining the computers that control the movement of trains and their power supply, as well as the backup power and the emergency generator. Downed trees brought down overhead wires on track powered by electricity.

Amtrak Resumes
There would have been more damage to rolling stock had New Jersey Transit not moved trains from flood-prone areas to higher ground ahead of the storm, Snyder said.

Other rail systems were spared damage to cars and engines. The New York City subway, the Long Island Rail Road and Metro- North Railroad moved trains out of harm’s way and they’re all fully operational, said Salvatore Arena, a Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesman.

Amtrak’s trains were also undamaged, said Steve Kulm, a spokesman. The Washington-based railroad restored service between New York’s Penn Station and Washington Nov. 1 and between New York and Boston Nov. 2. Acela Express service between Washington and Boston is operating on a reduced schedule, the railroad said in a statement yesterday.

Bombardier and negotiators from Quebec’s CSN union will resume talks Nov. 7 under the supervision of a conciliator, the labor group said today in a statement posted on its website. Bombardier will present an offer at the meeting, the union said.

Until the strike began, workers at La Pocatiere were busy assembling rail-car shells for New Jersey Transit and Maryland Transit, Mario Levesque, president of the union local, said in a Nov. 2 telephone interview. About a year’s worth of work remains on the two contracts, he said.

Final assembly of the Maryland Transit and New Jersey Transit cars is done at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh, New York, facility, near the Canadian border.

Marc Laforge, a spokesman for Bombardier’s rail unit, didn’t immediately respond to an e-mail message seeking comment today. A voice mail message left on the company’s media line wasn’t immediately returned.

To contact the reporters on this story: Jeff Plungis in Washington at [email protected]; Frederic Tomesco in Montreal at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Bernard Kohn at [email protected]

Source Article here:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-1 ... to-replace

pumpers wrote: Edit 8:00 PM Nov 7: in the LIRR forum there was a recent post that said the 2 East River tunnels were still out as of noon today.

The tunnels will be opening soon: http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/10/874/Amtr ... 12-104.pdf

old news, do search before posting...

That's great about the tunnels - now we'll be limited by the Kearny substation it sounds like. Is this special substation for the RR? It looks like there is a general electrical substation just north of the Pulaski Skyway on the banks of the Hackensack River. Is that the one which has been knocked out? JS

pumpers wrote:That's great about the tunnels - now we'll be limited by the Kearny substation it sounds like. Is this special substation for the RR? It looks like there is a general electrical substation just north of the Pulaski Skyway on the banks of the Hackensack River. Is that the one which has been knocked out? JS

best summary of the situation is that press release from amtrak:

The ability to further increase capacity through the Hudson River tunnels is currently
limited by significant flooding damage at a key electrical substation located near Kearney, N.J.
On Nov. 6, with the assistance of the Army Corps of Engineers, Amtrak brought the flooding
under control and de-watered the facility. The equipment is now being cleaned and will be
tested to determine the damage, the next course of action and estimated time for repair. Amtrak
is able to bypass this substation, but because the power used for this section of track now has to
supply a longer distance, the number of trains allowed to take power in the longer supply section
is to be restricted in order to protect the catenary wires from over heating or tripping the supply
breakers on overload until the substation is back on line for full restoration of service.

In addition, the 1930s-era electrical system was built by the Pennsylvania Railroad and
inherited by Amtrak when it took control of sections of the Northeast Corridor in 1976. It uses
unusual 25 Hz current; most modern electrical components are designed for 60 Hz current, thus
limiting the ability to easily substitute electrical components or bring in alternate power sources.

i forget all the details- but besides the arrows- does pretty much all the NJT and Amtrak equipment have the ability to change voltage and hz on the fly? Is it possible that swapping in a modern power supply for that section at 60hz would be faster? Or is that like years of work (also)?