How "profitable" is the NEC?

Some time ago, in a previous thread, I referenced Amtrak's "Route Profitability (sic) System," or RPS. A couple of years ago, I was able to obtain Amtrak's RPS reports for FY1998 and 99. Granted, they don't provide the most up-to-date information (Acela Express hadn't been introduced yet), but it provides far more detail than anything Amtrak officially releases (these documents were obtained through an FOIA lawsuit, IIRC).

For the benefit of those curious, I will provide the financial data for Metroliner and NortheastDirect service for FY99. I should point out ahead of time that there are certain items which may lend to some additional curiosity (such as "Superliner Depreciation"). I can't answer questions regarding why they are there (since I didn't produce the documents), other than to say that the amounts are minimal, and they are the result of some formula (exactly what formula, I don't know), that cross-charges different trains for the "benefit" they provide to each other (i.e. a passenger on the Capitol Limited connecting to a Metroliner).

If I can find the time to type them up, I will try to provide info for other trains as well.

So, without further ado (and I apologize that the numbers don't line up, if anyone knows how to format it so everything lines up, please let me know):

Amtrak RPS FY99 Route 01-Metroliner wrote: Revenue
Transportation

• 004 First Class Transportation Revenue-----14,254,600
  005 Sleeping Car Accommodation -----------------2,075
  006 Custom & Club Accommodation Rev-----9,092,792
  007 Food & Beverage Transfer---------------(2,403,270)
  016 Cancellation Fees----------------------------508,774
  ________________________________________________
  Net First Class---------------------------------21,454,971
  009 USA Rail Pass Revenue ----------------------10,529
  010 Coach Class Transportation -----------170,334,395
  ________________________________________________
  Total Transportation-------------------------191,799,895
  020 Food and Beverage------------------------4,810,866
  030 Express--------------------------------------------200
  035 Baggage----------------------------------------------5
  ________________________________________________
  Total Revenue--------------------------------196,610,966

Train Related Costs
Product Line Direct

• Train & Engine Crews
  045 Trainmen----------------------------------------3,422,985
  050 Train Enginemen -------------------------------2,730,747
  054 T&E Crew Meals -------------------------------------7,614
  Total Train & Engine Crews-------------------------6,161,346
  Fuel & Power
  055 Train Fuel------------------------------------------(25,077)
  060 Train Power-------------------------------------8,477,573
  Total Fuel & Power----------------------------------8,452,496
  On Board Services Labor
  065 Dining Car Labor-------------------------------3,228,867
  070 Coach Labor---------------------------------------80,002
  075 Sleeping Car Labor---------------------------------8,501
  079 OBS Crew Meals---------------------------------143,573
  Total On-Board Services Labor--------------------3,460,943
  Total Product Line Direct--------------------------18,074,785

Train Makeup

• 190 Yard Operations-------------------------------5,665,928
  
  Running Equipment Maintenance & Trip Inspect/Svc
  
  200 Diesel Locomotive Program Maint----------------6,603
  215 Electric Locomotive Program Maint----------2,047,515
  226 Locomotive Turnaround Service-------------1,316,886
  Total Locomotives----------------------------------3,371,004
  Cars
  235 Amfleet Program Maintenance---------------2,810,433
  250 Cab Car Program Maintenance ---------------------543
  280 Auto Carrier Program Maintenance------------------72
  295 Horizon Program Maintenance----------------------(273)
  310 Superliner Program Maintenance-----------------2,178
  311 Superliner II Program Repairs------------------------62
  355 Baggage Program Maintenance------------------------9
  370 Exterior Car Cleaning ----------------------------45,670
  375 Train Riders----------------------------------------34,848
  376 Talgo Program Maintenance---------------------------30
  388 Car Turnaround Servicing-------------------10,296,389
  Total Cars------------------------------------------13,189,961
  Total Running Equipment Maintnenance---------16,560,965
  080 Food--------------------------------------------1,893,522
  081 On Train Food Condemnage -------------------132,143
  085 Liquor & Tobacco--------------------------------259,950
  090 Non-Consumables-------------------------------420,353
  091 Special Trains OBS-----------------------------------584
  092 Linens and Laundry------------------------------(25,465)
  093 On Board Entertainment--------------------------------5
  510 Comissary Support ---------------------------2,831,288
  Total Catering Services----------------------------5,512,370
  Total Train Makeup--------------------------------27,739,263

Transportation

• Amtrak Transportation
  165 Qualifying----------------------------------------420,333
  175 Clearing Wrecks-------------------------------------228
  195 Passenger Inconvenience----------------------231,497
  515 Crew Support-----------------------------------390,239
  Total Amtrak Transportation----------------------1,042,297
  Railroad Transportation
  180 Operations Railroad-----------------------------30,343
  420 Track and Roadway-----------------------------17,633
  Total Railroad Transportation-----------------------47,976
  Miscellaneous
  181 Connecting Bus Service------------------------93,583
  185 MHC Lite and Reefer Drayage -----------------------2
  552 Product Line Support--------------------------583,312
  Total Miscellaneous---------------------------------676,897
  Total Transportation------------------------------1,767,170

Mechanical

• Heavy Repairs
  Locomotive
  205 Diesel Locomotive Heavy Repair-----------------853
  220 Electric Locomotive Heavy Repair ------------------8
  Total Locomotives --------------------------------------861
  Cars
  240 Amfleet Heavy Repair----------------------2,795,997
  285 Auto Carrier Heavy Repair-------------------------75
  300 Horizon Heavy Repair---------------------------7,108
  315 Superliner Heavy Repair-----------------------(1,999)
  Total Cars----------------------------------------2,801,181
  Total Heavy Repairs-----------------------------2,802,042
  Wreck & Accident Repairs
  Locomotives
  210 Diesel Locomotive Wreck & Acc-------------------44
  225 Electric Locomotive Wreck & Ac-------------997,215
  Total Locomotives---------------------------------997,259
  Cars
  245 Amfleet Wreck & Accident----------------------1,217
  305 Horizon Wreck & Accident--------------------------33
  335 Turbine Wreck & Accident--------------------------32
  Total Cars---------------------------------------------1,282
  Total M/E Wreck & Accident Repair --------------998,541
  M/E Miscellaneous
  386 M of E Vacation-------------------------------646,348
  387 M of E Inventory Loss------------------------537,197
  465 M/E Staff - Supv; Shop & Power----------6,343,218
  Total M/E Miscellaneous------------------------7,526,763
  Total Mechanical-------------------------------11,327,346

Marketing/Sales Support

• 490 Information & Reservations---------------5,242,543
  495 Marketing & Advertising ---------------------162,679
  496 National Advertising------------------------1,435,808
  497 SBU Advertising------------------------------510,338
  500 Commissions-------------------------------9,783,326
  505 Sales----------------------------------------4,751,555
  Total Marketing/Sales Support---------------21,886,249

Insurance

• 675 Self-Insurance-----------------------------5,933,366
  670 Purchased Insurance------------------------800,017
  Total Insurance---------------------------------6,733,383

Depreciation - Rolling Stock

• Locomotives
  Diesel Locomotive
  595 F40 Depreciation------------------------------89,033
  600 G40 Depreciation-------------------------------1,137
  606 P42-8 Depreciation-----------------------------2,256
  611 Diesel Switcher Depreciation ----------------57,694
  Total Diesel Locomotive--------------------------150,120
  Electric Locomotive
  615 AEM7 Depreciation-------------------------2,829,141
  620 E60 Depreciation--------------------------------1,105
  Total Electric Locomotive-----------------------2,830,246
  Total Locomotives-------------------------------2,980,366
  Cars
  625 Amfleet Depreciation----------------------5,222,683
  630 Cab Car Depreciation--------------------------6,899
  645 Superliner Depreciation----------------------15,903
  Total Cars Depreciation -----------------------5,245,485
  Interest
  679 Rolling Stock Interest - Electric ------------382,704
  694 Rolling Stock Interest - P42-8-----------------2,061
  Total Rolling Stock Interest----------------------384,765
  Total Depreciation & Interest------------------8,610,616
  ________________________________________________
  Total Train Related Costs---------------------96,138,812

Route Related Costs
Station Services

• Route Stations
  116 Special Trains Stations-----------------------------49
  
  Shared Stations
  120 Ticketing------------------------------------2,983,933
  125 Station Masters & Ushers-----------------1,090,328
  130 Redcaps and Porters----------------------1,066,650
  135 Baggage & Express Handling--------------------241
  145 Operations---------------------------------2,440,950
  475 Station Services Supervision---------------451,497
  Total Shared Stations--------------------------8,033,599
  Total Station Services-------------------------8,033,648

Maintenance of Way - Amtrak

• Track Related
  390 Roadway ----------------------------------------4,613
  395 Track -------------------------------------------76,792
  400 Snow & Ice Removal ------------------------473,305
  405 Tunnels-----------------------------------------65,498
  410 Bridges----------------------------------------606,560
  415 Signs & Fences --------------------------------32,446
  Total Track Related-----------------------------1,259,214
  Facility Related
  425 Signal & Interlockings---------------------2,676,626
  430 Communication Systems -----------------1,013,123
  435 Power Transmission Systems --------------591,548
  440 Road Buildings -------------------------------533,597
  445 Station Services-Building Maintenance---1,068,243
  450 Roadway Machines-------------------------1,485,299
  455 Facility Related Other------------------------509,832
  Total Facility Related----------------------------7,878,268
  468 M/W Vacation---------------------------------216,496
  469 M/W Inventory Loss -------------------------245,174
  470 M/W Supervision---------------------------1,638,452
  Total M/W Miscellaneous-----------------------2,100,122
  Total Maintenance of Way-Amtrak-----------11,237,604

• Depreciation
  575 Depreciation - Road & Other Fixed-----27,565,712
  580 Shop & Power Plant Machinery-------------388,853
  Total Depreciation----------------------------27,954,565
  Miscellaneous
  560 Procurement/Purchasing--------------------357,738
  565 Police-Security and Environmental-------3,286,053
  570 Computer Systems------------------------6,691,024
  665 Taxes-------------------------------------------51,875
  677 Interest---------------------------------------303,632
  Total Miscellaneous----------------------------10,690,322
  Transportation - Amtrak
  155 Train Dispatching----------------------------723,598
  160 Signal/Interlocker Operating---------------281,670
  170 Drawbridge Operations---------------------119,483
  480 Transportation Supervisory--------------8,371,119
  485 Joint Terminal Facilities----------------------35,672
  Total Transportation - Amtrak----------------9,531,542
  Total Route Related Costs-------------------67,447,681

System Related Costs

• 674 General and Administrative SBU --------2,084,824
  676 G & A---------------------------------------5,897,583
  550 General Support---------------------------3,532,979
  551 Mail Hauling Administration----------------------638
  553 Special Trains Miscellaneous --------------------749
  554 Express Administration---------------------------442
  555 Training------------------------------------4,895,592
  Total System Related Costs-----------------16,412,807

• Total Train, Route, & System Costs--------179,999,300
  
  ________________________________________________
  Profit (Loss)------------------------------------16,611,666

These numbers do not include the Vermonter, which was listed separately.

Amtrak RPS FY99 Route 05-Northeast Direct wrote: Revenue
Transportation

• 004 First Class Transportation Revenue-----16,546,863
  005 Sleeping Car Accommodation ------------1,563,356
  006 Custom & Club Accommodation Rev-----8,498,468
  007 Food & Beverage Transfer---------------(1,677,796)
  016 Cancellation Fees----------------------------531,000
  017 Private Car Movements ----------------------88,458
  ________________________________________________
  Net First Class---------------------------------25,550,349
  009 USA Rail Pass Revenue ---------------------511,469
  010 Coach Class Transportation -----------220,940,260
  ________________________________________________
  Total Transportation-------------------------247,002,078
  020 Food and Beverage------------------------8,843,766
  025 Mail------------------------------------------6,417,668
  030 Express---------------------------------------128,200
  035 Baggage----------------------------------------25,514
  ________________________________________________
  Total Revenue--------------------------------262,417,226

Train Related Costs
Product Line Direct

• Train & Engine Crews
  045 Trainmen---------------------------------------18,029,122
  050 Train Enginemen -------------------------------9,779,909
  054 T&E Crew Meals ------------------------------------59,150
  Total Train & Engine Crews------------------------27,868,181
  Fuel & Power
  055 Train Fuel----------------------------------------3,770,775
  060 Train Power------------------------------------19,632,925
  Total Fuel & Power--------------------------------23,403,700
  On Board Services Labor
  065 Dining Car Labor-------------------------------5,308,959
  070 Coach Labor--------------------------------------752,956
  075 Sleeping Car Labor--------------------------------69,227
  079 OBS Crew Meals---------------------------------323,959
  Total On-Board Services Labor--------------------6,455,151
  Total Product Line Direct--------------------------57,727,363

Train Makeup

• 190 Yard Operations-------------------------------8,668,284
  
  Running Equipment Maintenance & Trip Inspect/Svc
  
  200 Diesel Locomotive Program Maint-----------3,568,956
  215 Electric Locomotive Program Maint----------4,501,719
  226 Locomotive Turnaround Service-------------6,533,976
  Total Locomotives--------------------------------14,604,651
  Cars
  235 Amfleet Program Maintenance---------------7,812,016
  250 Cab Car Program Maintenance -----------------61,947
  265 Heritage Program Maintenance----------------239,091
  280 Auto Carrier Program Maintenance-----------------235
  295 Horizon Program Maintenance----------------------(395)
  310 Superliner Program Maintenance----------------12,127
  311 Superliner II Program Repairs-----------------------302
  325 Turbine Program Maintenance-------------------------43
  340 Viewliner Program Maintenance-------------------1,933
  355 Baggage Program Maintenance-----------------127,136
  370 Exterior Car Cleaning ----------------------------18,056
  375 Train Riders----------------------------------------60,544
  376 Talgo Program Maintenance--------------------------128
  388 Car Turnaround Servicing-------------------16,411,785
  Total Cars------------------------------------------24,745,931
  Total Running Equipment Maintnenance---------39,350,582
  080 Food--------------------------------------------3,626,232
  081 On Train Food Condemnage -------------------300,095
  085 Liquor & Tobacco--------------------------------381,248
  090 Non-Consumables-------------------------------833,270
  091 Special Trains OBS---------------------------------1,276
  092 Linens and Laundry-------------------------------16,913
  093 On Board Entertainment--------------------------------9
  510 Comissary Support ---------------------------3,165,886
  Total Catering Services----------------------------8,324,929
  Total Train Makeup--------------------------------56,343,795

Transportation

• Amtrak Transportation
  165 Qualifying----------------------------------------656,365
  175 Clearing Wrecks-------------------------------------378
  195 Passenger Inconvenience----------------------747,137
  515 Crew Support---------------------------------1,471,310
  Total Amtrak Transportation----------------------2,875,190
  Railroad Transportation
  180 Operations Railroad----------------------------208,857
  420 Track and Roadway--------------------------1,300,309
  520 Tax Accrual----------------------------------------1,823
  525 Administration----------------------------------992,841
  535 Contract Avoidable-------------------------------2,836
  540 Assumption of Liability--------------------------41,257
  545 Performance Payments------------------------846,691
  Total Railroad Transportation-----------------3,394,614
  Miscellaneous
  136 Transloading----------------------------------------178
  181 Connecting Bus Service-----------------------144,886
  182 Mail Drayage-----------------------------------984,369
  184 Special Trains Transportation-------------------4,007
  185 MHC Lite and Reefer Drayage ---------------------29
  191 Switching Express----------------------------------285
  552 Product Line Support------------------------1,966,391
  Total Miscellaneous-------------------------------3,100,145
  Total Transportation------------------------------9,369,949

Mechanical

• Heavy Repairs
  Locomotive
  205 Diesel Locomotive Heavy Repair----------1,461,671
  220 Electric Locomotive Heavy Repair ---------------315
  Total Locomotives -------------------------------1,461,986
  Cars
  240 Amfleet Heavy Repair----------------------6,996,932
  255 Cab Car Heavy Repair----------------------------627
  270 Heritage Heavy Repair--------------------------1,836
  285 Auto Carrier Heavy Repair------------------------269
  300 Horizon Heavy Repair--------------------------21,687
  315 Superliner Heavy Repair-----------------------(6,205)
  330 Turbine Heavy Repair-------------------------------31
  345 Viewliner Heavy Repair------------------------------8
  360 Baggage Heavy Repair----------------------------186
  Total Cars----------------------------------------7,015,371
  Total Heavy Repairs-----------------------------8,477,357
  Wreck & Accident Repairs
  Locomotives
  210 Diesel Locomotive Wreck & Acc----------------6,102
  225 Electric Locomotive Wreck & Ac-----------2,031,619
  Total Locomotives-------------------------------2,037,721
  Cars
  245 Amfleet Wreck & Accident----------------------4,633
  305 Horizon Wreck & Accident--------------------------95
  335 Turbine Wreck & Accident-------------------------119
  365 Baggage Wreck & Accident---------------------4,232
  Total Cars---------------------------------------------9,079
  Total M/E Wreck & Accident Repair ------------2,046,800
  M/E Miscellaneous
  386 M of E Vacation-----------------------------2,362,375
  387 M of E Inventory Loss---------------------1,519,327
  465 M/E Staff-Supv; Shop & Power----------22,024,585
  Total M/E Miscellaneous-----------------------25,906,287
  Total Mechanical-------------------------------36,430,444

Marketing/Sales Support

• 490 Information & Reservations--------------13,815,615
  495 Marketing & Advertising ---------------------465,496
  496 National Advertising------------------------2,566,299
  497 SBU Advertising----------------------------1,289,848
  500 Commissions-------------------------------7,330,697
  505 Sales----------------------------------------3,344,147
  Total Marketing/Sales Support---------------28,799,102

Insurance

• 675 Self-Insurance----------------------------15,634,281
  670 Purchased Insurance----------------------2,141,960
  Total Insurance--------------------------------17,776,241

Depreciation - Rolling Stock

• Locomotives
  Diesel Locomotive
  595 F40 Depreciation-------------------------11,672,049
  600 G40 Depreciation----------------------------270,467
  606 P42-8 Depreciation--------------------------375,432
  611 Diesel Switcher Depreciation --------------185,265
  Total Diesel Locomotive-----------------------12,503,213
  Electric Locomotive
  615 AEM7 Depreciation-------------------------6,450,784
  620 E60 Depreciation-------------------------------17,369
  Total Electric Locomotive-----------------------6,468,153
  Total Locomotives------------------------------18,971,366
  Cars
  625 Amfleet Depreciation---------------------13,408,599
  630 Cab Car Depreciation------------------------343,610
  635 Heritage Depreciation------------------------161,681
  645 Superliner Depreciation-----------------------41,908
  655 Viewliner Depreciation-----------------------591,905
  Total Cars Depreciation ----------------------14,547,703
  Interest
  679 Rolling Stock Interest - Electric ------------873,226
  694 Rolling Stock Interest - P42-8---------------339,455
  Total Rolling Stock Interest--------------------1,212,681
  Total Depreciation & Interest-----------------34,731,750
  ________________________________________________
  Total Train Related Costs--------------------241,178,644

Route Related Costs
Station Services

• Route Stations
  105 Ticketing--------------------------------------367,361
  110 Operations-------------------------------------11,341
  116 Special Trains Stations---------------------------119
  Total Route Stations------------------------------378,821
  Shared Stations
  120 Ticketing------------------------------------9,283,471
  125 Station Masters & Ushers-----------------2,680,872
  130 Redcaps and Porters----------------------2,262,136
  135 Baggage & Express Handling-------------3,628,667
  140 Mail Handling---------------------------------378,539
  145 Operations---------------------------------5,682,054
  475 Station Services Supervision-------------1,229,183
  Total Shared Stations-------------------------25,144,922
  Total Station Services------------------------25,523,743

Maintenance of Way - Amtrak

• Track Related
  390 Roadway ----------------------------------------5,319
  395 Track -----------------------------------------985,398
  400 Snow & Ice Removal ----------------------1,132,964
  405 Tunnels----------------------------------------117,596
  410 Bridges--------------------------------------1,672,590
  415 Signs & Fences --------------------------------66,772
  Total Track Related-----------------------------3,980,639
  Facility Related
  425 Signal & Interlockings---------------------6,768,482
  430 Communication Systems -----------------2,104,924
  435 Power Transmission Systems ------------1,077,444
  440 Road Buildings -----------------------------1,771,633
  445 Station Services-Building Maintenance---2,101,955
  450 Roadway Machines-------------------------3,503,924
  455 Facility Related Other------------------------851,203
  Total Facility Related---------------------------18,179,565
  468 M/W Vacation---------------------------------606,914
  469 M/W Inventory Loss -------------------------569,255
  470 M/W Supervision---------------------------4,642,291
  Total M/W Miscellaneous-----------------------5,818,560
  Total Maintenance of Way-Amtrak-----------27,978,664

• Depreciation
  575 Depreciation - Road & Other Fixed-----63,524,682
  580 Shop & Power Plant Machinery-----------1,246,389
  Total Depreciation----------------------------64,771,071
  Miscellaneous
  560 Procurement/Purchasing--------------------760,507
  565 Police-Security and Environmental-------7,594,108
  570 Computer Systems-----------------------16,660,917
  665 Taxes------------------------------------------142,573
  677 Interest---------------------------------------836,708
  Total Miscellaneous----------------------------25,994,813
  Transportation - Amtrak
  155 Train Dispatching--------------------------4,305,994
  160 Signal/Interlocker Operating-------------2,625,711
  170 Drawbridge Operations---------------------645,003
  480 Transportation Supervisory-------------25,189,242
  485 Joint Terminal Facilities----------------------65,272
  Total Transportation - Amtrak---------------32,831,222
  Total Route Related Costs-------------------177,099,513

System Related Costs

• 674 General and Administrative SBU --------5,463,974
  676 G & A--------------------------------------14,647,591
  550 General Support---------------------------8,300,168
  551 Mail Hauling Administration-----------------327,082
  553 Special Trains Miscellaneous ------------------1,194
  554 Express Administration---------------------------802
  555 Training-----------------------------------12,210,601
  Total System Related Costs-----------------40,951,412

• Total Train, Route, & System Costs--------459,229,569
  
  ________________________________________________
  Profit (Loss)----------------------------------(196,812,343)

Without trying to go through all of the figures, just let me say this:
None of Amtrak's trains are really profitable. The northeast corridor is
probably the part of Amtrak that best fulfills a need. The corridors of
California, Chicago area and the Pacific northwest also fill a need.
Don't believe me?, just go to Penn Station, New York, Philadelphia,
Boston or Washington or one of the major intermediate stations and see
for yourself the crowds of people using Amtrak on a daily basis almost
around the clock.
Go to one of the intermediate corridor stations where you can still access
the platforms and just watch and witness the parade of trains passing
through and stopping.
Amtrak may not be a major play in places like El Paso, Atlanta, Denver,
Memphis (no pun intended) and many more large cities but in the northeast, Amtrak is a major and in some cases the big player.
We here in Fort Lauderdale, Florida have only two round trips north and
are not much anymore but once you get to Washington, Amtrak is big.
A lot of people will tell their cab driver or take the subway to UNION
STATION rather than the airport to travel.
Some of the professional sports teams (Boston Red Sox in particular) and
some politicians use the train regularly to travel in this area too.
As I have stated previously on here, we do not have enough corridors on
Amtrak. Certainally Florida, Texas and many other areas could use to
good advantage a corridor type service such as is available between the
northeastern cities.
All is not well in other areas, here in Florida, the politicians just "hoodwinked" the voters into defeating a bullet train amendment
because they did not want to spend the money. I agree that maybe the
bullet train approach was the wrong way to go but our state leaders could
have done what California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Wisconsin and
even Vermont among others have done to improve and expand railroad
passenger service.
In Florida, we really did not need the bullet train, all we really need is for
the existing railroad lines to be fixed up and expanded as necessary to
carry the passengers and freight that they were intended to carry when
they were first created. We do need intercity passenger service in
Florida and it needs to serve the entire state and not just three or four
cities.
Noel Weaver

Actually the NEC is the largest LOSER in terms of money

but at least the trains are patronized

this is proof positive that passenger trains cannot make money

even with the frequency and ridership on the NEC, they still loose buckets of cash

An appropriate comment, Nip.

They ARE patronized; come on up (how bout riding Sleeper direct from Tampa next time!!!).

crazy_nip wrote:Actually the NEC is the largest LOSER in terms of money

but at least the trains are patronized....

ALL of Amtrak's trains are patronized, most of them to the limits of their capacity. The NEC trains actually have lower load factors than the long-distance trains.

I remember seeing on CSPAN about 3-4 years ago, George Warrington testify before Congress. During his testimoney, he basically said that NY-Washington made money ( if you did not include capital expenses ). And that this route was the most profitable of any at Amtrak.

he is wrong

I have been an advocate of the states coughing up more dough for the NEC for years

it is essentially a commuter cooridoor and the taxpayers at large should not have to subsidize the commuting habits of wealthy residents of the N.E.

and a large part of that, government employees

I think Congress should pay to improve the NEC or make it seperate operation.

AmtrakFan

Gentlemen...Why all this needless dissection of Amtrak?

Nothing needs to be separated...nothing needs to be run as a separate entity.

In short...lets go easy on the intensive bean-counting for just one moment.

Amtrak needs/must be funded at a level that will allow it to maintain at a minimum its current route structure, while at the same time allowing for the purchase/rehabilitation/repair of its rolling stock.

I consider Amtrak to be a valuable service for reasons that I have given previously on this forum. Mind you, I currently live over 150 miles from the closest Amtrak route so you can eliminate any preconceived notion of the "foamer factor" (sic).

It is a needed form of transportation. In many parts of the country it is the ONLY public transporation because there is no bus or airline service.

Amtrak needs to survive....but not at a starvation level of support. Its about time we all start seriously considering how to ensure the survivability of the national Amtrak system.

Just to clarify that I posted the above numbers for information only, making no comments regarding any conclusions that could be drawn from the above. I personally don't see any benefit in splitting the NEC from the rest of the Amtrak system. In fact, once that happens, it's only a matter of a very short amount of time before the "rest" gets thrown away (in my opinion).

If I can find the time (perhaps next weekend), I'll post the financials for a couple of LD trains, for comparison.

Here again we see the importance of accounting. I know virtually nothing about RPS, but I do know that if you divide a system into a bunch of little pieces, some of which you call "profitable" and others "unprofitable" based on some arcane formula, people will not look at the details of the arcane formula. They will look at the "profitable" and "unprofitable" labels and say "shut down the unprofitable parts and then you'll be fine." Unfortunately, if the arcane formula has flaws, that conclusion is likely to be wrong.

If Amtrak's accounting system would avoid reporting "profitability" on a route-by-route basis, people would avoid thinking about it that way. Eventually you would get rid of the prevailing-but-wrong idea (most common among outside observers who have never heard of RPS, much less tried to see if it makes any sense) that killing a few routes here and there would make Amtrak "profitable." The lesson here is that how you report the numbers determines how people think about the numbers. That's the critical role of accounting. I think David Gunn understands this, and it is one of the main reasons I have confidence in him as a business person.

>>>there are certain items which may lend to some additional curiosity (such as "Superliner Depreciation"). I can't answer questions regarding why they are there (since I didn't produce the documents), other than to say that the amounts are minimal, and they are the result of some formula <<<

Perhaps the equipment is now fully depreciated, having served the number of years originally estimated for the depreciation period?

Lest we forget, the W Gang hocked 'em in a sale leaseback arrangement during "glidepath to self sufficiency" days. That means negative cash flow will arise for some time to come. The accounting income benefit of "fully depreciated" equipment with remaining economic life now inures to the Leesor.

Noel Weaver wrote:
In Florida, we really did not need the bullet train, all we really need is for
the existing railroad lines to be fixed up and expanded as necessary to
carry the passengers and freight that they were intended to carry when
they were first created. We do need intercity passenger service in
Florida and it needs to serve the entire state and not just three or four
cities.
Noel Weaver

I think you need the existing lines speeded up, perhaps to 100 mph. And then some greater frequencies.