• Housatonic Railroad Thread (Maybrook, Berkshire, Pittsfield)

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

  by Greg Moore
 
Ridgefielder wrote:In-service connection on the Southern end is the MNR Danbury Branch to South Norwalk. Maybrook Line is o/o/s east of Newtown, but there's a connection there to the Naugatuck at Derby. To the west there's a connection to the MNR Harlem Division at Towner's but the Maybrook west of White St. in Danbury is even more o/o/s than the tracks to Derby; last time I was up there, there were 3'-4' trees growing in the gauge.

No access to Beacon any more, there's a bridge out. The tracks between Hopewell Jct. and Poughkeepsie have been gone for decades; when Conrail used this as a through route the trains were routed over the old Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut from Beacon to Hopewell, then east on the Maybrook main. Extensive discussion of the uses of this line over in the Metro-North forum-- MN owns from the NY State line west to the river.
Thanks. But now I think I need a good map :-) But that does help.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Question to Mr. Dudley, or anyone;

Is HRR traffic, other than that they don't have to haul it as far to their one and only interchange with the B&A, within Massachusetts any more lucrative than that in Connecticut ( yeah, Mr. Android knows how to spell full names of those states)?
Yes. There's no Berkshire Line customers whatsoever between Century Aggregates a mile south of the North Caanan engine house and O&G a mile-plus north of New Milford station. That's why the CDOT-owned midsection went dark for as long as it did under Conrail, and why the line was partitioned the way it was between Conrail and B&M. It's mainly a function of geography. That's the portion of the line that hugs the river tightest and passes through the most acres of state forest. Lots of miles where it's pinned between US 7 (or another flanking road) and the river with no private property period, and a lot of the private property that does exist out in the hinterlands around the river are sporadic little acre, half-acre plots unsuitable for any commercial use except a pumpkin patch.

Housy's passenger excursion traffic was the original excuse to reopen the midsection, as freight alone wouldn't have risen to the challenge back then. With today's freight economics the thru route would have some utility if HRRC made the slightest attempt whatsoever to diversify from on-line scraps. A transload presence of any shape or form in the Danbury area would be enough to eke out enough viable thru traffic for a zit reporting mark (e.g. in the mold of Newtown transload...except making an opportunity out of it instead of a dumpster fire and many enemies). That's exactly how G&U is doing it on the MA 140 corridor, and how Mass Central in the rural MA 32 corridor of Worcester County has been doing it for years: take an area that's bereft of limited-access highways and has to make do with one two-lane corridor as its trucking lifeline, and ruthlessly squeeze every nickel of revenue out of transloads near the major diverging points. US 7 fits that mold to a T. It's a longer corridor, which is a challenge MC and G&U don't have on their ~20 mile mains. But if MC and G&U can work that business angle to margins that punch well above their weight without outside help...somebody with the right discipline and business acumen should by all logic be able to work the US 7 corridor to a floor of break-even-plus-one. Which is all a zit reporting mark needs, even in a "post- on-line" biz era. There's a Class I with one traffic profile on one end, a Class II with a different traffic profile on the other (and potential to up its area activity considerably if it got the Maybrook-east), a good mix of diverging truck routes anchored at both ends, big honking underutilized yards at the density thickets at both ends with cheap industrial property a stone's throw from said yards, and a slight skew towards rail-captive bulk aggregates for what traffic clusters near those ends. Juxtaposed against what those other zit indies like MC and G&U are doing, that reads like a set of fungible building blocks.

The only challenge here is that Housy management screwed the pooch so bad on Berkshire maintenance it's going to take a publicly-funded bailout to make it an operable corridor for the next reporting work. It's not possible to pull a G&U, have a new owner self-fund the upgrades, then immediately pay that back that cost in-house with profits. It's beyond the scope of any zit reporting mark to do pull their bootstaps up that high...including the ones who could turn a profit on this corridor if inherited track conditions were better than "condemned". So a bailout is inevitable. CT and MA long ago decided that losing the Berkshire altogether was an unacceptable outcome for the economic justice of the US 7 corridor, so the next recruit will get a rigorous up-front SGR commitment from public sources. You can quibble whether that sunk cost is worth it for sake of a zit reporting mark in today's rail industry, but the states made up their mind long ago that bailout was in their self-interest so that's how it's going to play out. The next zit mark will get a puncher's chance at doing something with the building blocks by having the states roll back the negligence on the physical plant. Then it's up to the business plan and how well it exploits those building blocks. If zits like G&U and MC can fashion a business plan out of transloads on similarly famished two-lane trucking corridors...there's nothing on-spec that says it's unachievable here. We're just going to have to swallow a pretty big cleanup bill before moving the next mark to the starting line.
  by J.D. Lang
 
In line with what F-Line has said once HRRC goes away and “if” the states help back a new owner there is a lot of potential for a sustaining freight business. Just look at what this company has done over the years.

http://www.rbmnrr.com/new-home/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ironically I met a young fellow back a number of years ago during Canaan RR. days when HRRC and BSRRC worked together to run excursions between Canaan and GT. Barrington. This young enthusiastic fellow was in charge of sales and customer service at HRRC. He left a few years later when the dark clouds of Billerica descended over Canaan and is now VP. Of Forest products at Reading Blue MT. Northern. Good career move I’d say.

So yes Alice there is hope in Wonderland. :wink:

J.L.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Tiny. Providing for itself in a space the size of a boil on an elephant's butt. Slang to distinguish the types of shortlines like CSOR that are corporate appendages making a much bigger player money through narrowcasting its focus vs. a do-it-yourself operation like CNZR that can feed itself on scraps and thrive within profit margins not much bigger than a few rolls of nickels. Berkshire Line fits the profile of the latter much more than the former.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Dudley, back when I was "up on The Hill" 1956-61 (that's South Kent School lest anyone wonder), New Milford was on an industrial development kick. While this resulted in consternation to the Locals ("bringing in all those people..."), it did provide jobs - and fresh business for the New Haven. Here is the remnants of one such industry, a brass metal fabricator that the New Haven "recruited".Here's another the New Haven recruited that remains active.

One has to wonder if Century-Scovill Brass went away owing to other economic factors or did the railroad make them leave? Losing a traffic source that generates more weight than cube, little reason for OSD (loss and damage), and both inbound and out shipments - what more could a railroad ask for?

Now the second, Kimberly Clark, remains active, but inbound paper is traffic better handled on rails than on decrepit US7.

Question, could a reliable rail operator get any such business back?
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Following up on Mr. Railnut's link to the most recent spill, here is same for that occurring at Gaylordsville just before I was back for Alumni Weekend:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newstime ... 966214.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another thought I have held for some time; what if Amtrak, MTA, and MTA all been.on the scene some fifteen years earlier. The success of the P&W certainly suggests that the New Haven could have made it as a freight only road.
  by J.D. Lang
 
Now the second, Kimberly Clark, remains active, but inbound paper is traffic better handled on rails than on decrepit US7.
KC. still receives inbound loads of (pulp?) in boxcars from HRRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udS512t3ziA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The first part shows them switching KC. Although the video is several years old they still get those boxcars from HRRC. As far as other industries in the New Milford; Century brass just went out of business just as Nestles just north of there plus Quality Food Oils just south of KC. These industries folding or leaving had nothing to do with the quality of rail service in the area but more with the rotten climate of being able to do business in CT.

J.L.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Lang, I wish to thank you for your updated information regarding New Milford industries. So Scovill just plain got bought out by Century and eventually checked out of town for the St. Louis area and not account of any poor rail service.

Now regarding Hawleyville, get out an old New Haven map, say 1920, and note how tracks converged at Hawleyville from six directions.

Finally, the Engine House (that could have passed for a Napparano scrapyard) in the video I presume is at Canaan.
  by FLRailFan1
 
J.D. Lang wrote:
Now the second, Kimberly Clark, remains active, but inbound paper is traffic better handled on rails than on decrepit US7.
KC. still receives inbound loads of (pulp?) in boxcars from HRRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udS512t3ziA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The first part shows them switching KC. Although the video is several years old they still get those boxcars from HRRC. As far as other industries in the New Milford; Century brass just went out of business just as Nestles just north of there plus Quality Food Oils just south of KC. These industries folding or leaving had nothing to do with the quality of rail service in the area but more with the rotten climate of being able to do business in CT.

J.L.
I wish the business climate in Connecticut would be better. However, if someone ever got the HRRC, I'd think it would come back.

Myself, I would do 3 things: 1) With the towns, promote industrial parks and trans loading areas (lumber is at Hawleyville), but maybe transloading areas for paper products, steel, etc. 2) Create interchanges with the P&W in Derby and the CP in Beacon and 3) Create a task force with NY, CT and MA about passenger trains and tourist trains..
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
How about my school kid recollection of a Northbound passing Woodrow at about Noon that I often could see in winter from "the Hill". Such train was in the 75 car range (and I think Mr. Weaver held it when ebb and flow allowed). The Southward was in the evening.

I guess if that traffic represented interchange from the ERIE and others at Maybrook, then it's gone. But if either on-line or through Cedar Hill, could Housy be restored Newtown-Derby and some of the traffic come back?

Finally, allow me to reiterate a point I know I've made earlier; Litchfield County is a "transportation wasteland" - and the Locals want to keep it that way. Because "I was there" during the industrial development binge New Milford went on, I know how some such as Faculty residing there resisted such.

Now so far as the One Percenters from New York zipping up US7 with its 40-45 posted in their Porsches, you think they want to be stuck behind an18 wheeler on 7? They didn't even want to be stuck behind me observing the 40 by going 42. And how do you think they liked it when on likely the only straight stretch South of Boardman's Bridge I put on my signal to make a left into the Rocky River Inn, could you ever hear that Porsche "growl".
  by ELSDP45
 
As far creating an interchange with the P&W goes, it already exists but is seldom used. It was at Derby but is now in Danbury due track conditions.
  by DutchRailnut
 
officially HRRC has no interchange with P&W , yes a few MofW cars have been but those are not covered under interchange rules.
  by Ridgefielder
 
DutchRailnut wrote:officially HRRC has no interchange with P&W , yes a few MofW cars have been but those are not covered under interchange rules.
Paper barrier dating from the Conrail sale of the Danbury cluster, right?
Gilbert B. Norman wrote:I guess if that traffic represented interchange from the ERIE and others at Maybrook, then it's gone. But if either on-line or through Cedar Hill, could Housy be restored Newtown-Derby and some of the traffic come back?
Noel and others on here would know for certain, but I'm pretty sure that most the traffic you were seeing were carloads moving between Norwalk, Danbury and the B&A interchange at State Line. And that's just not coming back. The hat factories are gone, along with every single customer on the Danbury Branch south of Bethel. You might be able to attract a few more carloads with some more pro-active management but the days of 75-car freights on the Berkshire are lost and gone forever...
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