Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

Once the service gets a good reboot.

I prefer the optimism of Mr Ellis ... his money is where his mouth is on getting the IP Hoosier State running.

The GP40FH's may have been the best of the lot at the "dealer/rebuilder",this service will be
"light duty" to those units,3 cars,and a trailing unit, considering what they did on NJT.

Backshophoss wrote:The GP40FH's may have been the best of the lot at the "dealer/rebuilder",this service will be
"light duty" to those units,3 cars,and a trailing unit, considering what they did on NJT.

Well said.

justalurker66 wrote:I prefer the optimism of Mr Ellis ... his money is where his mouth is on getting the IP Hoosier State running.

Me, too. I love his optimism and enthusiasm.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:However, nothing upsets the fact that how many passengers are interested in a service that takes 5'05" and that can safely be driven in 3'15".

This is a good point, sir, but you western suburbanites can go around the city. Last week it took us three hours to get Lincoln Square (CNW Ravenswood) to Gary, where I-65 splits to Indy. Rush hour is terrible lately and I would gladly take this train to Indy. It would mean getting a bit of work done or sleep accomplished. I can handle the extra two hours as one will likely compensate for rush-hour traffic downtown.

justalurker66 wrote:Mr Ellis reports that the engines have recently been overhauled. Preparing the train for service was more than a paint job.

Very cool. My comments were inspired by a CSX employee's comments about the OCS F40's and the GP40W used on the geometry train. The sentiment was "a coat of paint does not do much if she's tired and worn out".

Tomorrow is a"scrub". Looks like Amtrak is "digging in":

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/bus ... /29480563/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought this would be a go, but it seems as if Amtrak is fearing a flood of local sponsors, for whom other services are operated, bailing out.

Wonderful case of "Nitpicking" to the extreme!

Memo to states; don't try to kick the Feddies out of anything they don't want to be kicked out of.

This matter will be in court before any contract with a party other than Amtrak to operate Hoosier State is effected.

So this highlights the lunacy of using Amtrak in this process. They appear to bring zero value to the process, given that Indiana already has a safe, certified, operating passenger railroad that could operate this dog-and-pony show with far less mess. You would lose CUS (not much of a loss at all given the awful boarding process and dumpy lounge) and you would lose access to Amtrak crews (not much of a loss, CSX has plenty of crews) but otherwise this could have been up and running months ago with an existing infrastructure already in place.

Instead, the shenanigans continue.

I don't share Mr. Norman's view that it will never happen, but we'll see another few months of time wasting and maybe we'll see the FRA stick their heads further up their behinds with another attempt to label Indiana as a railroad (IE: dumbest possible idea ever).

Regarding the FRA's attempt to label Indiana a railroad: they tried it with North Carolina, once, too. I understand their need to have essentially a responsible party of record, but making the state that party is a terrible idea. The FRA appears to barely be able run a post office.

Let's take a step back and gain some perspective: NASA has private space companies that have designed, built, and launched rockets into space in four years. We're still figuring out how to run a few GP40's to Indianapolis after two years.

Won't Amtrak gain from this replacement because some coaches will be released that could earn a profit by working on the NorthEast Corridor?

JimBoylan wrote:Won't Amtrak gain from this replacement because some coaches will be released that could earn a profit by working on the NorthEast Corridor?

The Horizons? The only time they make NEC appearances is as surge equipment during holiday rush. Manual doors are no-go for the NEC, so when they are used AMTK has to take great pains to segregate them at opposite ends of the trainset.


Horizons + all NPCU's save for the ones assigned to the Cascades and Downeaster are going straight to Beech Grove for storage when the bi-level corridor cars replace all single-levels in the Chicago division. Kept in working order for equipment shortages, and possibly a residual fleet if Michigan and Illinois pass on some of their bi-level options. But that's it. They aren't cars Amtrak has any interest in continuing to run beyond the aforementioned holiday surges and pinch-hit duty in equipment shortages. All of which would only require a small portion of the fleet to be on active duty at any given time.

Amfleets, yes...any currently in the Chicago pool will get reassigned back east as first order of business when the first bi-levels go into service. But there's very few of them assigned to Midwest and they're mostly for plugging shortages. Every extra car helps back East, but you're not talking a sizable infusion when they scrape up the scattered Midwest/West assignees and send them to the East Coast.

Would the promise of state-sponsored track upgrades be enough to entice the railroad to grant IDOT/IP trackage rights on terms similar to Amtrak? I forget, is it just CSX that is the host?

Maybe IDOT needs to sue Amtrak for anti-trust violations for being a monopoly private company.

[OT] getting lots of SQL errors lately on this website. Apparently I don't have rights to post into the site issues topic.

General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]

Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) [2002]

An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.

Mr. B&A, I presume you are addressing The Indiana Dept of Transportation (INDOT), vice Illinois (IDOT).

I really believe one party, Iowa Pacific, has been injured in this fiasco, and I wouldn't blame them in the least if they seek legal remedies in the matter. In good faith, they made railroad equipment roadworthy for which there was no other need. They incurred training costs, and possibly some separation costs for employees hired
but now whacked.

I don't know which party is being more childish; Amtrak and the Fed's or whatever agency within Indiana. All I know is that IPH should have been mindful of the snakepit into which they were jumping when they encroached between two parties, one of which had no use for them.

This could very well be simply a case of "We want ALL i's dotted and t's crossed" or bust. We live in a ridiculously litigious society these days so if Amtrak and the FRA want literally everything done the way they see fit it could be all in the name of avoiding "liability" issues, etc. down the road. Even the most innocent of things can cause big legal trouble.

JimBoylan wrote:Won't Amtrak gain from this replacement because some coaches will be released that could earn a profit by working on the NorthEast Corridor?

Amtrak is being paid for the interim service ... they will be paid for their crews when the begin operating IP trainsets. If they are able to continue to use the Hoosier State to get cars to and from the hospital in Indy there won't be much loss. If they need to run separate trains or run on the Cardinal only that will be an operational loss.

It would have been nice if the new service would have started the day the state (and cities) started paying for train service. Now that they are being paid to run the trains there is less desire to shut the service down. I do not know if Amtrak is financially/operationally better off under the current interim service or if they will be better of when they are operating IP trains. It is certainly my opinion that the SERVICE and passengers will be better off with IP trainsets.

Tadman wrote:So this highlights the lunacy of using Amtrak in this process. They appear to bring zero value to the process, given that Indiana already has a safe, certified, operating passenger railroad that could operate this dog-and-pony show with far less mess. You would lose CUS (not much of a loss at all given the awful boarding process and dumpy lounge) and you would lose access to Amtrak crews (not much of a loss, CSX has plenty of crews) but otherwise this could have been up and running months ago with an existing infrastructure already in place.

Instead, the shenanigans continue.

I don't share Mr. Norman's view that it will never happen, but we'll see another few months of time wasting and maybe we'll see the FRA stick their heads further up their behinds with another attempt to label Indiana as a railroad (IE: dumbest possible idea ever).

Regarding the FRA's attempt to label Indiana a railroad: they tried it with North Carolina, once, too. I understand their need to have essentially a responsible party of record, but making the state that party is a terrible idea. The FRA appears to barely be able run a post office.

Let's take a step back and gain some perspective: NASA has private space companies that have designed, built, and launched rockets into space in four years. We're still figuring out how to run a few GP40's to Indianapolis after two years.

Amtrak have been running the Hoosier state for years, will continue to run the Cardinal. They are providing the crews, and the running rights over several railroads. Possibly they want to make sure everything is covered. Possibly they are throwing up barriers, just as any other business would do upon losing a contract.
They probably don't see any great hurry, just becasue some rail fans want to see some old locomotives with new paint jobs. The train service will still run.

Tadman wrote:NASAA has private space companies that have designed, built, and launched rockets into space in four years

these operations are man-rated though, unlike the SpaceX that went bang a couple of days ago.