Hoboken: why (1) idling and (2) low-level platforms?

I went through the Hoboken train station today and have two questions:

(1) There was an F40PH coupled to a string of passenger cars, scheduled to depart a few hours after I went through. As far as I could tell, the train had been in the station already for at least about 10-15 minutes, if not longer. Yet the locomotive was sitting there, idling, with diesel fumes coming out of it. Why let a locomotive just sit there and run? I was a member of one transit board (away from NYC) and that transit authority prohibited idling (for buses), since it wasted money and was bad for the environment.

(2) Why does Hoboken have low-level platforms? I'd think that such a busy station would have been upgraded.

SouthernRailway wrote:I went through the Hoboken train station today and have two questions:

(1) There was an F40PH coupled to a string of passenger cars, scheduled to depart a few hours after I went through. As far as I could tell, the train had been in the station already for at least about 10-15 minutes, if not longer. Yet the locomotive was sitting there, idling, with diesel fumes coming out of it. Why let a locomotive just sit there and run? I was a member of one transit board (away from NYC) and that transit authority prohibited idling (for buses), since it wasted money and was bad for the environment.

(2) Why does Hoboken have low-level platforms? I'd think that such a busy station would have been upgraded.

In the east, especially in the winter/colder months, engines must be kept on to keep the engine warmed up.


I would think since there are:

1. Lack of space around the station
2. Low canopys

in Hoboken, it would not be cost, space, and time effective to build high level platforms there. Plus this station has a unique character to it, although it may not be the best set up for heavy periods, it has worked very well for a long period of time.

The general rule on the Hoboken Division is to have diesels run at the west end, which reduces exhaust and impact on the concourse.

Plus isn't the station and train shed on some historic register which prevents modifications to disturb the historic character of it or something to that effect?

Another reason why the engine was kept idling was to keep the coaches warm. Large diesel engines cant be turned on and off on a dime as the cooling water needs to be kept at a certain temp other wise it might freeze and crack the block. It wouldn't likely happen in this circumstance but in general.

ElliotCourtney wrote:Plus isn't the station and train shed on some historic register which prevents modifications to disturb the historic character of it or something to that effect?

Yes.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:The general rule on the Hoboken Division is to have diesels run at the west end, which reduces exhaust and impact on the concourse.

That's the general for NJT, not just the Hoboken Division.

An F40PH isn't a bus. Its a normal operation for railroads to idle locomotives.

To me a bigger problem than the exhaust is the noise from the HEP running. It's toughest on the employees. Amtrak67 mentioned walking through Hoboken and not being bothered by the fumes. How about spending eight hours there?

I know people at other railroads with the same setup and they are not happy about it. Someone I know quite well who is an electrician told me he wishes now -- after almost thirty years -- he had gone to work someplace else. He loves the railroad but the working environment is not that good. There's many health risks.

Someone else I know says his employer, for some reason, absolutely resists providing electrical hookups to keep the coaches running heat or a/c. You know how much fuel is wasted by these long idles? These locomotives burn A LOT of fuel at idle especially when they're running a HEP unit.

It's not a joke. We all know diesel exhaust is a recognized carcinogenic, right?

rebuilding locomotives or wayside power cost oodles of money and is not really cost effective.
Soon the older locomotives are retired and problem solved, just imagine the pollution of a fleet of steam engines, so we have improved already, but it comes in stages.

Tommy Meehan wrote:It's not a joke. We all know diesel exhaust is a recognized carcinogenic, right?

Nobody said it was.

Some NJT equipment has Autostart, most doesn't. Until it does its not always practical to be shutting engines down and starting them up all day.

As for spending 8-hours in Hoboken, it's not bad at all.

I never understood why wayside power plugs aren't installed on the east end of the depot tracks, next to the bumping block. At least the trains that sit in the terminal all day can be shut down and plugged in.

But maybe because of the salt air and at times water, the corrosion would have an effect on it? Or probably because it would be so close to the passenger area and who knows what some moron passenger would do....."oh look at that! lets play..."

BTW, the seperate HEP motors (small caterpillar inline 6's - 3506 maybe?) on the old Geeps use far less fuel than the 710 V16 prime mover on the PL42 running at 450 RPMs providing HEP.

Jtgshu wrote:But maybe because of the salt air and at times water, the corrosion would have an effect on it? Or probably because it would be so close to the passenger area and who knows what some moron passenger would do....."oh look at that! lets play..."

I would say the real reason they haven't been installed is: "None of the above."

Ka-ching!

to shut unit down and plug it in you need two mechanics then again two mechanict to unplug, start, test train.
by time you figure that against savings its just not worth it.
keeping a hugh engine block like a 645 or 710 heated requires a lot of Kilowatts as well
not to mention the entire trainset.

There are wayside plugs on some depot tracks. All are OOS and most likely destroyed from the regular flooding the depot is subjected to.

sullivan1985 wrote:There are wayside plugs on some depot tracks. All are OOS and most likely destroyed from the regular flooding the depot is subjected to.

I wonder, since they should have known about Hoboken's flooding problems and the station has had overhead catenary train power for over 80 years, why are the wayside plugs set so low that they might get destroyed from flooding? Shouldn't they have been able to have arranged the plugs to dangle from above, and be relatively easily moved closer to the ceiling, or modularly detached and replaced? I'm assuming train hotel power is 600 volts DC.