• Fired for running through a banner...

  • General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.
General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.

Moderator: thebigc

  by BigMike
 
LCJ wrote:I don't know -- but what part of "prepared to stop within one half the range of vision" was not clear? Believe it or not, the FRA actually expects this requirement to be enforced and complied with.

Anyone who thinks that's just too much to expect from a train operator probably doesn't have much of a future running trains (or at least shouldn't). As the FRA sees it, where or by whom the banner is set are pretty much irrelevant.

If one is running at restricted speed, one really should not run into anything ahead.

Just my opinion.
That is true but I think its not gonna cost you a dime to fight this thing so let it run its course and once you get behind the throttle maybe these things wont happen.

  by Gadfly
 
Welcome to NS!!! Advice from an old head? DON'T rock the boat by trying to "get even" while you are out of service! Stay cool and let things run their course. IF you get back, keep a low profile, follow the rules, fly under the radar. Eventually it will blow over. TRUST ME, YOU HAVE NO CHANCE OF OUT-SNITCHING THE SUPERVISORS; IT WILL BACKFIRE ON YOU! Don't get the reputation for being a rat and a suck-up. You may think you are "right", but the craft people AND (surprise!) the supervisors won't agree with you.

I will tell you that this DOES, however, sound VERY familiar because it is the way NS operates. Once they "get it in for you", you've had it!!! Even if you DO get back, it may P.O. that YM so that he will be gunning for you on the least thing! (Remember: these folks have friends!)

Good luck!


Gadfly
  by HermitNS
 
I thank each of you for the input good or bad.
Just to clarify...the YMs at my old yard are officials, not contract.
I am COUNTING on some of those folks to read this and MAYBE get these problems rectified. That's why I put so much info in that would identify me. As I see it, I already lost the job so why not start fires? IF I am offered my job back, I doubt it'd take long to fire me again seeing as I AM outspoken about these violations. My fault for speaking directly to the problem instead of using the chain of command but then again, I didn't think grown men could be so childish. I guess I'm now initiated in the union vs. company atmosphere.
Yea, I know, regardless of what I say, we were at fault for the accident BY THE RULES. Which is what burns me about some of the other things the official in question is "turning a blind eye" to.
Thanks again for all your input, opinionated or fact.

  by DutchRailnut
 
From one of your previuous post I gather you have problems with more than just managment, as newbee you upset the apple cart, both at Union and Managment end of things.

  by Erwin
 
DutchRailnut wrote:On what railroads do yard masters set banner test ???
CSX does this also.
  by jz441
 
HermitNS wrote: Yea, I know, regardless of what I say, we were at fault for the accident BY THE RULES.
Correct, you were at fault, and they fired you. Now, don't start any more fires...
It will take about year and a half for your case to get before the board. The board will find that discipline was to excessive, and you will be returned back to work.
Unfortunately, there isn't a quick fix to this, since there are hundreds, if not thousands of cases like this ahead of yours.

Good luck!

  by jz441
 
I forgot this....
Since you admitted at the investigation to be at fault, don't count on getting the back pay.

  by conrail_engineer
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and parse this.
HermitNS wrote: As far as showing up for work, proper, accurate and efficient customer service (I have been "tested" by railroad officials after spotting auto facilities and have NEVER received less than a 98% compliance...and that is usually due to mismatched deck heights...something I have no control over). I am also "the guy" who is held over (usually close to going on the law) to complete the work that "senior" workers fail to complete in their EIGHT hour (or less) shifts.
Some of this is good; and some doesn't matter. Your attendance record is in your favor - that is a BIG issue with today's railroads. Customer service less so...the customer cannot cause nearly as much grief as can the FRA. They claim service is a priority; but they don't really care one way or another if a shipper is displeased.

Who is held over to cover work, is not relevant. AS far as management is concerned, we're all just interchangeable parts. You're available; you cover.
I AM a troublemaker in that I reported sexual activity between contract workers DURING shift and on moving locomotives.
I reported a senior engineer who trains jr conductors to run the engines then allows those conductors to operate said locomotives WITHOUT the engineer being physically onboard the power.
Big problem. The bearer of bad news is often associated with the bad news. I learnt of this when I had to work with an engineer who was high and running recklessly. I nearly lost my job for reporting his behavior and his violence on my person.

He is now fired, for issues related to his substance abuse (he never failed a whiz-quiz). But the black mark is in MY personnel record.
I report EVERY cut of cars with insuffucuent or NO handbrakes applied. (one such cut rolled out of the yard recently and narrowly missed a moving outbound train. The impending accident was averted by a conductor I trained who VIOLATED the boarding moving equipment rule so he could bust the air that was bottled by the same crew I mentioned in the above paragraph) ETC, ETC, ETC.
Tattletales are not appreciated. If you see something unsafe, correct it and report YOUR action. As for what other people are doing, leave that to management. Keep it limited to YOUR own area of responsibility.

That is counter to safety dogma, but that is the way the railroad works.
Maybe I shouldn't go back because it's an antiquated and archaic form of management that I can't deal with.
If you can't deal with it, and you have any choice at all - you shouldn't go back. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable.
The wreck??? Accidents can/do happen.
The official line is: ALL ACCIDENTS ARE PREVENTABLE.

We both know that's not absolutely true...but this is the false-reality you're working with. When things go wrong, it's someone's fault. So there are higher stakes and a BIG interest in keeping things from going wrong.
I bet you can't find a report on it though. Looking for NS 7131 accident reports in the FRA files and I can't find it anywhere. Is a coverup WORSE than an accident? My mentality? I ran the flightdeck of an aircraft carrier for my squadrons on several deployments.


Coverups are commonplace, especially now that the carriers are pushing that remote-technology. They're getting GOOD at sweeping stuff under the rug...eventually, it will blow up on them and cause them grief, but for now, that's how it is.

Keep in mind: When problems are found, the rank and file will pay. The accident/incident issues on CSX have translated into increased supervision with regards to train speed, train securement, brake issues. Always, always, sewage rolls downhill.

You will NOT make any friends or headway with threats to rat out. Nor will it get your job back. I would put those plans aside - unless you're prepared to leave the industry. Even then, you'll make powerful enemies that may hurt you later.
You make the call here.
I have. :wink:

  by COEN77
 
How does someone run in to the back of a train and think they are not at fault? How does someone run through a Banner and think they are not at fault? Sounds like a case of sour grapes. You start out I have a perfect record then tell the story of rear ending a train. Excuse me I've been railroading 31 years and 28 of those as an engineer and never came close to something you've screwed up in your 2 1/2 years on the NS. I'd like to know where yardmasters place banners not on CSX as one poster stated. YM's are semi-officials, but are contract employees they belong to part of the UTU.

  by CSX Conductor
 
Erwin wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:On what railroads do yard masters set banner test ???
CSX does this also.
Umm, maybe down South they do. Only Trainmasters and Road Foreman do banners around these parts.

NS Hermit: You admitted to being at fault in a rear-ender, I doubt you'll get back, especially after running a banner. When I read your posts I tried not to form an opinion right away, but it looks to me like you're bitter because you screwed-up. It sounds like you're upset because you were banner tested. Um, hello? Being involved in a rear-end collision as a result of a Restricted Speed violation would make you a very large target for banner testing.

I don't like to see people loose their jobs, but I'd be scared if they hired someone back knowing that they've admitted to being at fault for Restricted Speed Violations. And you're worried about others having sex on the property?!? Or others having porn on cell phones?!? Perhaps pay more attention to what's going on in front of you next time you're on a train, if you get back.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
I've never worked for a railroad, so I fell like an ass to give any sort of comment or advice... but from everything I've read about the job and everything anyone has ever shared with me, I have learned this: Railroading is a heads up, ass down, mouth shut job. They should never notice you, know you by name, or otherwise be involved in your life aside from signing your check each month.... don't rock the boat, enjoy a long and safe career by looking out for number one: YOU.

-otto-
Last edited by Otto Vondrak on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

  by jz441
 
Mr. Vondrak,

That's exactly how it's done... :wink:

  by Erwin
 
CSX Conductor wrote:
Erwin wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:On what railroads do yard masters set banner test ???
CSX does this also.
Umm, maybe down South they do. Only Trainmasters and Road Foreman do banners around these parts.

....
I am sorry I must have read to quickly, it is indeed the Trainmaster that I see doing this, not the Yardmaster. At least I know his truck he's driving in though.

  by Burner
 
HermitNS wrote:I AM a troublemaker in that I reported sexual activity between contract workers DURING shift and on moving locomotives.
I reported a senior engineer who trains jr conductors to run the engines then allows those conductors to operate said locomotives WITHOUT the engineer being physically onboard the power.
I report EVERY cut of cars with insuffucuent or NO handbrakes applied. (one such cut rolled out of the yard recently and narrowly missed a moving outbound train. The impending accident was averted by a conductor I trained who VIOLATED the boarding moving equipment rule so he could bust the air that was bottled by the same crew I mentioned in the above paragraph) ETC, ETC, ETC.
First off I have to get this off my chest...


WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Damn scab...

Is it do as I say not as I do around you? You had a restricted speed rear ender and you have the balls to lecture other people about rules compliance?! Who the hell do you think you are? you talk about a brother who averted a major accident by boarding moving equipment during an emergency as if HE had done somthing wrong... I dont know about your rulebook but mine says thats a-okay in an emergency like that.

You dont report cuts of cars with no handbrakes!!! You tie brakes and find the motherfucker that didnt tie the brakes and give him a piece of your mind!

Man am I glad you're not in my local... I bet people are afraid to work around a snitch like you.

I'm not saying I go around breaking the rules all the time, I have never had a failure yet (knock on wood, thats 1000 Points for the UP folk in here) or an accident, or an injury, or anything!!!

As Otto said. Keep your head down and do your work right. DO NOT scab out on your brothers...

  by CSX Conductor
 
Burner wrote: You had a restricted speed rear ender and you have the balls to lecture other people about rules compliance?! Who the hell do you think you are? ...
Indeed, maybe he should think again aboutgetting his job back, not a good idea. Nobody likes snitches.