Diamond crossings in NY

jr wrote:The PS&N crossed the PRR at White House Tower, near the village of Portville. Removed approx 1946.

JR

Hi jr, Nice to see you taking part in the discussion.

Not to be picayune, but the PS&N was officially abandonded on April 1, 1947 with track removal commencing after that date.

It's been years since I've been back that way, but how did the Erie (EL/CR/WNY&P) cross the B&O (BR&P/B&P) in Salamanca? Was it at grade or on a bridge?

several more:

Central Square NYO+W/(NYC×RW+O)

Rouses Point D+H/Rutland

Norwood Rutland/(NYC×RW+O)

Clark Mills NYO+W/WestShore

Rippleton LV/WestShore×Chenango br.

Falconer jct Erie/NYC×Dunkirk+AlleghenyValley

charles

Hi Art,

Thanks for your post. The BR&P / B&O crossed over the Erie /EL mainline on a set of truss bridges at Carrollton, NY, a bit East of Salamanca. Is this the crossing to which you refer? They also had interchange trackage in the city of Salamanca (but no crossings-at-grade as far as I know).

Regarding the PS&N, I was aware of the abandonment in 1947. I have read "somewhere", sorry to be so vague, that service on the Olean branch was discontinued in 1946. It might have been Pietrak's book, or elsewhere. But there was apparently an effort to keep the mainline of the PS&N operating in 1946-47, and this, of course, failed. My "about 1946" date was a semi-educated guess that if, in fact, the PS&N did discontinue on the Olean branch that year, then the PRR might have pursued the removal of the diamond at White House shortly thereafter.

JR

Thanks, JR. How could I have forgotten Carrollton? Your post stimulated some long dormant grey matter-I now remember going there, probably 35+ years ago, and finding the remains of a 65 Chevy under the B&O bridge that had tangled with an EL freight and come out much worse for wear. I was drawing a blank when I made my first post and could not remember where the two lines crossed. I guess my father knew what he was talking about when he told me how the mind goes when one gets older.

I'll have to check out my PS&N books when I get home to see if I can pinpoint a date for the abandonment of the New York State portion of the line. I have a video that I purchased from the PS&NRRHS that shows the Olean yards not long after the scrapper had left and also has scenes of the scrap train at work around Farmers Valley and Smethport, PA, not far from the New York/Pennsylvania border.

Himrod Jct. was PRR under, NYC over in the end...as I said earlier though, how it all began was probably at grade.

Also add: D&H-West Shore (NYC) at Vorheesville.

[Edited to add fifth Xing:]

If you want to include more trolley-railroad grade crossings, Kingston NY had five:
Broadway X West Shore RR
Hasbrouck St. X Ulster & Delaware RR
Delaware Ave. X Ulster & Delaware -- two places
East Strand X Ulster & Delaware (there is also a section on East Strand where the trolley line and U&D had shared trackage)

Presumably all these were removed shortly after Kingston trolleys stopped running in 1931.

Regarding the PS&N, I was aware of the abandonment in 1947. I have read "somewhere", sorry to be so vague, that service on the Olean branch was discontinued in 1946.

I'll take this opportunity to correct my previous post, and thanks Art for bringing this to my attention.

Evidently the partial abandonment of the PS&N was in May 1946, and was all trackage to the north of Bolivar. After this date, the RR essentially became a St. Marys to Olean operation, with a branch to Bolivar. It operated like this until March 31, 1947, when all operations ceased. So the crossing with the PRR at White House must have lasted until, at least, the latter date.

Reference is Stories of the Pittsburg Shawmut & Northern Railroad by Lee Cory.

JR

Add D&H - Rutland at Rouses Point.

The NYC Troy and Schenectady Branch crossed the D&H Saratoga Division at Watervliet Jct (WX) on a bridge over the D&H. It was not a crossing at grade.

There was a crossing diamond on Green Island where the D&H Troy Branch (from Waterford Jct) crossed the D&H Green Island Branch (from WX to Troy) to reach the Green Island Freight House. To clear up a perennial question, the D&H Troy Branch was the original R&S main line from Green Island to Waterford Jct. The Green Island Branch was the D&H line from WX to the Troy Union Railroad that crossed the Green Island Bridge.

The NYC Putnam Division - Harlem Division Mahopac Branch crossing at XC, just east of Lake Mahopac, was two turnouts, and not a crossing, at least during the later 20th century.

Add
Rutland - D&H Mooers Branch at Mooers Jct.
Rutland - NYC Adirondack Divison at Malone Jct.
Grand Trunk (CN) - NYC Ottawa Division at Helena. (NYC Ottawa Divison crossed the Rutland at Moira with two turnouts, not a crossing.

I can cheat. I have a book of maps from circa 1918 that shows all the roads, railroads and trolley lines in the Empire State. I could, therefore, assume that every place tracks intersect there once was a diamond. I do not have the time to count they all and report them all. I am sure a lot of them, of course, are not diamonds; but it is interesting to seek some of them out even if there is only a cinder under a bush where it once was.

So the question I have, is which one is the newest diamond, the most recently installed?

I too can cheat. I am looking in the new "Herbert V. Trice" book, "The Gangly County Cousin" Lehigh Valley's Auburn Division book, and I counted a total of 18 LV diamonds, in the photos of this book. (a 2 track main crossing a 2 track main counts as 4 diamonds). An excellent book, about the various branchlines that became the Auburn Division. I will also bet that this book is not inclusive of allLV diamonds, in the state of New York. Regards

TRICE. Herb. I believe he was one of two Trice's who worked for the LV Auburn Div. Herb, I think, was the one who railed me with great stories when, as a college student with a cheap box camera, visited Freeville station (complete with diamond) and I was able to get a couple of shots of trains around the daimond and getting orders!!! That was probably 1964 or 65.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but, in Dunkirk ,the ex-NYC branch,which ran from the mainline, south to Falconer and into Pennsylvania, still runs to just north of rt.20, in Fredonia. In the process, it crosses the Norfolk Southern's ex-Nickel Plate main. I'm pretty sure it crosses on a diamond. Also, at one time the Erie branch to Dunkirk [original mainline] crossed over the Nickel Plate, but I don't know if they used a diamond.

Hey Henry, that is sure the same family. The book is well worth the money, for the history you get. Got all the diamonds, branch abandonment dates, customers, removal dates, etc. A wealth of LV railroad history. Regards

The NYC Harlem Line crossed the CNE at grade at Millerton. I don't know about up at Boston Corners, but I assume that was at grade as well.

Jeff