Diamond crossings in NY

calorosome wrote: Driving east on 17/86 towards the Chemung exit, you can see the DL&W ROW to the south and there is no question that in the end the DL&W had an overpass over the Erie.

oh right..looking at the DL&W ROW today would be useless for determining if it once crossed the Erie at-grade..
because if the DL&W was raised, today's ROW will be the raised ROW!
we wont be able to find the original, lower ROW..hmmm..
well, if Henry has a map of the crossing, thats all the evidence I need..
and that 1902 topo map is pretty conclusive too IMO..

Scot

What is Charlotte Dock BR&P/BR&P? I don't remember anything there, but maybe it was before my time...

Scot – What about inside Kodak Park?

Back in the day KP had a pretty extensive network of spurs, sidings, switchbacks, etc. Would surprise me if one or more diamonds didn’t once exist – particularly in the area between Bldg 23 and the KP East power plant (I forget the bldg number…). Also perhaps in the KPM “yard” area where the BR&P and NYC pass thru the park. …FB

CORRECTION:
Former diamonds, now gone

Binghamton - BD tower - Erie/DL&W
THIS ONE IS STILL IN USE AS THE EAST LEG OF THE WYE; HOWEVER THE FORMER WEST LEG OF THE WYE IS GONE.

PLUS:

DL&W/ERIE at Painted Post (2/1)

I believe the DL "elevated" thier line over the Erie at Chemung with the overall improvement program the road undertook in the late 90's into the early teens. Remember the line Binghamton to Buffalo was built after 1880. As was often the custom of railroad building then, it was built through then they returned and built it right.

There are more, we just have to find them...good job, good thread.

here is scoop on Waverly,
Frank Evans gave me the story.

the Erie was originally 6-8 feet lower than it is today.
The hotels at Fulton street crossing had stairs running down to track level.

The entire Valley is in a bowl..low in the middle and higher on both ends.
originally (1850's) the Erie just laid rails on the ground, and the west end of town, called "Loder Summit" near today's Ted Clarks store and Elmira street, was the top of the grade west of town.
The area near Broad st. extension, Kasco and Tioga mills, was the top of the grade on the east side of town.
later the Erie built up 6-8 feet through Waverly to make everything level and eliminate the short grades on both sides of town.

By the time the Geneva, Ithaca and Athens Railroad built into Sayre from Ithaca, 1870's, the Erie was already raised and they passed under it.
(this was later the LV mainline north out of Sayre)

when the DL&W came through in 1883 (quite late) they simply built their line brand new with raised embankments, to make their modern railroad totally level across the valley.

So the Erie, DL&W and LV never crossed at-grade through Waverly..
the LV always passed under both.

Scot

To clarify the one at Charlotte Docks - On the top of the cliff a lead went north to a dead end. The crew would pull up the lead, throw a switch and back the loaded coal cars out onto one of the two tracks on top of the trestle.

North of the trestle, also on top of the cliff, was a company known as Genesee Feldspar. They had either two or 3 tracks, served by a facing point switch northbound off the dock yard lead.

So to get to Genesee Feldspar an engine would push the car ahead of them northward, throw the switch, cross the track leading to the trestle on a diamond, and into the plant.

The feldspar place was derelict when I first went there in about 1961, and today almost no traces remain. In Rafuse's book "Coal To Canada" the feldspar plant car be seen in the background in a couple photos, but not the diamond itself.

Hope that helps.

ok! one more update..
this will be the last update I will be able to do for several weeks..
because im getting married on Saturday!
I dont expect to be on-line at all for the next 2 weeks!


So if anyone wants to continue this list, and update it, feel free.
see you in a few weeks!
Scot

Former diamonds, now gone

Binghamton - D&H/DL&W
Bronx - High Bridge Yard - short lived diamond- CSX/MetroNorth
Buffalo - FW Tower, (PRR/ERIE?)
Buffalo (Blasdell) - Erie/PRR
Caledonia - G&W junction - G&W/Erie
Caledonia - G&W junction - G&W/NYC
Caledonia - P&L junction - BR&P/LV. (double diamond-LV)
Chemung - Erie/DL&W (4 way diamond?? two 2-track mainlines)
Corning area - Erwins Crossing - DL&W/Erie
Cortland - LV/DL&W
Freeville - LV/LV
Golah - Genesee Valley Junction - Erie/NYC
Lake Mahopac - NYC/NYC
Leroy - NYC/Erie
Machias Jct - PRR/BR&P
Mayville - JW&NW/PRR
Mount Morris - DL&W/PRR (double diamond -DL&W)
Mount Morris - DL&W/Erie (double diamond -DL&W)
Owego - DL&W/Erie
Owego - DL&W/LV
Painted Post - DL&W/Erie (double - DL&W)
Phelps junction - PRR/NYC
Rochester - Charlotte dock, BR&P/BR&P
Rochester - Genesee Junction - PRR & NYC. (double diamond-NYC)
Rochester - Mortimer junction, Erie/NYC (double diamond - NYC)
Rochester - Mortimer junction, LV/NYC (double diamond - NYC)
Rochester - NYC Charlotte branch, Otis yard, NYC/NYC
Rochester -Charlotte- NYC/NYC
Rochester -Chili ave Bridge, PRR/BR&P
Salamanca area - Riverside junction - double crossing- PRR crossed BR&P and Erie
Sidney - D&H/O&W
Sodus - NYC/PRR (this diamond might be in place, but not active)
Tonawanda - EL-2 interlocking - Erie/NYC
Tonawanda - EL-3 interlocking - Erie/NYC
Tonawanda (N. Tonawanda) - Erie Dock line/NYC Niagara Branch
Voorheesville - D&H/NYC

several diamonds were at Genesee Falls RR, Rochester, industrial trackage. none remain.

regional market, Rochester (Henrietta) a dimond still there, not in use.

Diamonds still in use:

1. Binghamton - D&H/Erie (now CP/NS)
2. Binghamton - BD tower - Erie/DL&W
3. Olean - Erie/PRR (now WNYP/NS)? (is that right?)
4. Blasdell (Buffalo) originally Erie/NKP, now BSOR/NS.


.
.
.
.
.
.
1. Binghamton - D&H/Erie (now CP/NS)
2. Binghamton - BD tower - Erie/DL&W

are those the same diamond? or two different ones?

I believe they are the same.

Charles

TThe 2 in Binghamton are connected as the east leg of the wye going into runner tracks 1 and 2. The cross tier tracks one and 2 on a bridge over court street.

The Falls Road has a diamond, too -or at least it did the last time I was there (2003). These are spurs that cross each other. One goes to the cold storage facility while the other headed off into an abandonned warehouse/factory. The latter spur is covered in weeds but the diamond would still see active service from the other one- unless FRRR removed the diamond recently.

An interesting thread. I suspect that we've just touched the tip of the iceberg.

The PS&N crossed the PRR at White House Tower, near the village of Portville. Removed approx 1946.

The Western NY & Pa interurban crossed the Erie near St. Bonaventure College, and crossed the PRR at North Union St. in Olean. Both removed approx 1927.

JR

Hopewell Jct used to have a diamond. The Dutchess and Columbia/ Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut ran from Beacon to Pine Plains and Canaan. The Dutchess County RR built from the Pokip Bridge to Hopewell 1890's, crossing the ND&C where the station sits today. (ND&C became part of CNE/NYNH&H, DCRR the Maybrook- all of it gone now.)

There were also 2 diamonds at Campbell Hall (near Maybrook)- one where the O&W crossed the L&NE /Erie Pine Island Branch, one where the Graham Line crossed the L&NE about a mile away.

There was also a diamond in Burnsides, where the Lehigh and Hudson River crossed the O&W a few miles west of Campbell Hall.

Did anyone mention the U&D/ West Shore in Kingston?

Whelp, that google site's pic of CP1 in the Buff looked horrible so I dug up 2 different track plans along with some air photos I have and you can take it to the bank, there's a Diamond over Main Track #3 just South of River Bridge and CP Draw. The "Beach Lead" comes off Main Track # 1 and crosses Main # 3. It then splits West into Ohio St. Yard on the "Eastbound" and South to Seneca Yard Via "The Divide Switch" and then the "Lehigh Westbound".

There is also another active Diamond just East of this one from CSX Main Line #1, South, over Main Line #2 to the Norfolk Southern "Westbound". This location is just South of CP Draw and North of Tift St. Yard.

Also, for your list, DM tower was a Diamond crossing of the DL&W "City Branch" with the Pennsy's main into Buffalo.

There was a set at BC Junction where the Buffalo Creek main crossed over the NYC right around the spot of the current Diamond south of River Bridge.

There was also a set of Diamonds at FW Interlocking where the Erie, Buffalo Creek, PRR and NKP came together.

There was another set of diamonds at FO Interlocking between the NYC & Erie in South Buffalo.

There was another set near the present "CP GJ" between the NYC Gardenville Branch and the PRR Buffalo Line.

-B in B

The G&W/NYC diamond in Caledonia is still in existence, although the NYC tracks are clearly abandoned and out of service. Here is a picture taken 6/4/2004 of that diamond, looking west along the abandoned NYC tracks. The active G&W crosses. The switch in the distance leads from the NYC tracks into P&L junction.

I thought that was still in use. I've seen tank cars down at Jones Chemical. The R&S uses that switch in the background then heads across the diamond to downtown Caledonia.

Charles