CtDOT/SLE GP40-2H STATUS THREAD

[NorEasterNick]

If the GP-40s aren't meeting the EPA rules, I'd hate to see what the emissions of the P40's look like. Although you can't see some types of pollution, the visible particulates coming out of the P40s are a lot worse than the GP40s. Both types of locos need some serious engine work and exhaust gas treatment to eliminate visible particulate emissions. That being said, I saw a GP-40-2H smoking it up in OSB a few weeks ago, it was a downright frigid day, so it must have been because of HEP for heating because the train wasn't moving. They have separate HEP engines, unlike F40's and P40's, right?

the NJT units hardly smoke,

Oh? really? Is that why everytime we have 4801 30th Street station FILLS with black smoke and is so unbarable you can smell it from the waiting room?

[DutchRailnut]

I have seen no pictures of smoke on NJT units while the CDOT units smoke real bad.
The smoke is not the polutants that EPA look for however, its the unseen polutants that are dangerous.

[Kaback9]

The NJT units are not that bad in terms of smoke. I have seen some of the newer PL42s produce more smoke. But like Dutch Said those are not things the EPA is looking for.

[BiggAW]

The P40's are 4 stroke engines which after a rebuilt will comply with EPA tier 1 requirements, the NJT units hardly smoke,
The GP40 or any EMD for that matter are two stroke engine, one of most polluting engine in world, making them compliant drops horsepower by significant %%

Ah, 4 stroke vs. 2-stoke. That makes sense. So I assume the P40's on the SLE haven't been rebuilt yet? Does anyone know when they will get painted? That is an improvement they could do almost overnight to the service. Will they have the same scheme as the NH P32AC-DMs? What I saw on the GP-40-2H must have been the HEP engine smoking it up, as it was idling on the third track at OSB, and it was probably 10F out, so the HEP would have had a decent load on it.

EDIT: Is wikipedia correct in saying that there is no such thing as a P40-DC, it is really an AMD-103?

[Erie-Lackawanna]

Does anyone know when they will get painted? That is an improvement they could do almost overnight to the service.

New paint does not improve service. New paint improves image. When dollars are in short supply (as they almost always are in this business), they should be used for expenditures that will provide improvements to service first, and image later.

Jim

[FL9AC]

EDIT: Is wikipedia correct in saying that there is no such thing as a P40-DC, it is really an AMD-103?

That's not a true statement. There are three different models of the Genesis, so using "AMD-103" would be blanket statement for all the Amtrak Genesis locos. The correct model designations from GE is a P40DC, a P42DC, and the P32AC-DM.

[oknazevad]

Any chance you could swing by there and fix it back to the correct designation? I'd do it myself, but a foolish vadal used my IP address range recently and the compter I'm currently on got blocked. Seems that it was a series of changes by one user who thinks he knows better than eveyone else who has contributed to the article.

[BiggAW]

Yeah, someone who knows should go an fix it.

The P40DC makes more sense, but AMD-103 should only be for it, as it meant AMtrak Diesel 103 mph, and the P42DC, and P32AC-DM can do 110.

Why weren't the P42's made with AC motors if they allow the locomotive to be so much more powerful? Also, how does the third rail work on the P32? Is there some sort of inverter that inverts the ~650V DC power to AC for the traction motors?

Lastly, why wasn't the inverter/ transformer spec'ed out for the full 3200hp? It seems like a dumb system to limit the horsepower on third rail, as if they had the full 3200, the Harlem and Hudson line trains could run off of third rail on the lower lines, and the Danbury trains could run from New Rochelle south, all without putting hours on the prime mover or burning diesel fuel, and still allowing the diesel switchover to run outside of the main lines that are electrified or east/north on the New Haven Line past New Rochelle.

[DutchRailnut]

The P32acdm does run at full horsepower on third rail, infact its at certain speeds the engine actually produces at least 3350 HP in Third rail mode, the P32acdm is NOT a full time electric locomotive and is only suppose to run in Electric between GCT and CP5, third rail operation actually gets tricky for a locomotive due to gaps, and at speeds over 45 mph the chances increase to get flash overs from shoes to wheels.
Picture a electric welder that instead of 32 volts and 125 to 325 Amp runs at 770 volt at 3370 Amps, it would total the locomotive in no time.
MU cars with a lenght of 2 x 85 feet do have way less gappin g than a single locomotive of 69 feet.

Also on third rail mode the P32acdm does not have Dynamic/blended brake, as that inverter is used as step up inverter stepping up the 770 volt to 1400 volt DC for the DC buss on the Genesis which feeds the traction and HEP inverters.

[BiggAW]

Interesting, I had heard many times that they weren't full horsepower- guess that was incorrectly oversimplifying them. Why then, can the LIRR GM DE-30DM's run in full time 3rd rail operation, and why did MNCR order locomotives that weren't true dual-mode?

The MU's do gap out, so what stops them from getting damaged from that arcing that doesn't allow the P32's to run at speed on third rail?

So the same equipment is used for dynamic brake and third rail power?

If the P32s were so powerful, why didn't Amtrak get P32AC's without the DM stuff for their normal fleet?

Basically, then the P32 is not really dual-mode, but rather a diesel locomotive with the ability to do a hop on 3rd rail. They seem sort of like a kludge to hack around the unique circumstances in GCT and NYP (NYP especially, since MNCR could live without them, but some passengers would be, um, unhappy)...

What did the FL9's do in their days? When was the last FL9 run into GCT with its 3rd rail capability?

[DutchRailnut]

Amtrak's P32acdm's are same as MNCR P32acdm's except for emergency hatch and different third rail shoes.
As for why DE/DM can run full speed lets first establish that the DE/DM are lemons and perform far below par compared to a GE P32acdm.
As for arcing ask LIRR why one of their DM units fully cooked due to arcing.
As for MU's doing less arcing I have explained that a 2 x 85 foot MU spans gaps a lot better than a 69 foot locomotive drawing 8 times as much power.

[BiggAW]

I understand that the MU's arc a lot less, but they may still arc on occasion, and in fact they do. So what stops them from cooking? In essence, you are saying that a 3rd rail locomotive is bound to be a failure at speed, you have to go EMU? Is it just that because they are EMU's the load it spread enough not to cook them? LIRR fixed a lot of their problems with the DM's, they were all due to maintenance.

My point about Amtrak is if the P32AC-DM's are so powerful because of AC power, why didn't Amtrak get P32AC's instead of P40DC and P42DC's?

[blockline4180]

the NJT units hardly smoke,

Oh no???

Take a look at 3:41 then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNaV9Mhw ... re=related

[DutchRailnut]

To a GE thats just a little puff , and since its white smoke it hardly means a thing,, now if that smoke were Black and lasting longer, I would say NJT did not get what they paid for, but since its white and only a few seconds long I say they got the Turbo lag well under control.

[emtpjimd]

Dutch - thanks for answering all the questions on the P32's electric operation - it makes sense that the gaps are a big problem with such a high amperage draw and the need for the speed limits. With that said, is the reason that the old NYC was able to use 3rd rail only electric locomotives at speed due to the lack of the extra HEP draw? Seems like there were no speed restrictions on those units....just trying to base a comparison as to current draw on an all electric loco vs. a P32....