CSX Charlotte Runner

BR&P wrote:What for?

To service the paper company on Boxart Street... assuming CSX decides it is no longer worthwhile to do it themselves. In light of what Roadster has said since I originally posted my comment, a sale to a shortline seems unlikely at this point.

Starting a shortline to serve ONE customer who gets 2 or 3 cars a week in an area where any new industry is not apt to develop is wishful thinking or worse. It takes more than tracks and a locomotive to make a successful rail operation. In physical terms it's possible, but in a business context there are a lot more factors to consider and most of those factors do not look good in the case you mentioned. Run Forrest, run!

Wishful thinking or worse? Let's consider this: there is alreadyy a shortline (the R&S) that is in the area. If CSX was to sell the line, the R&S actually makes sense a potential buyer. Since there would already be a need for a crew to service Eastman Business Park nearby, I can't imagine it would be very hard for the R&S crew to occasionally go north to Boxart Street to service the customer.

Furthermore, I have seen a shortline keep a segment in operation with just one customer. As stated previously in this thread, the LA&L services Matthews & Fields in Henrietta once or twice per week. The car count is low, but the ex-LV branch remains in operation. I wouldn't count out the north end of the Charlotte Runner just yet.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Mathews & Fields traffic does not support the entire railroad. (Isn't there a second customer at the same location also?). In the discussion above, the issue was the track from Kodak to Folding Box. There appears to be no potential customers in that location other than the current operation. The whole area is mostly residential, including LONG term residential at Holy Sepulcher Cemetery. So increased traffic is very unlikely. The paper business is volatile and ownership of the plant has already changed hands recently. It might last 50 years but it might shut down tomorrow. Putting all your marbles in one small basket is not usually a good business proposition.

When you take all the various expenses (liability insurance, track maintenance, equipment maintenance, signals at 2 crossings, a place to keep the locomotive, accounting, various FRA mandated programs for training and certification, hirail truck vehicle insurance, employee wages and benefits, and MANY more items besides those - and we have not even talked about who buys the track from CSX and pays taxes on it) and figure the revenue those ballpark 150 cars will bring, it's not an attractive proposition.

I know, there are many examples of shoestring operations existing on very little. And we can play "what if..." all day to explain away various expenses. It's not totally impossible. It's just not likely.

You could wind up with a small fortune from that segment. All you have to do is start out with a big fortune.

I clearly see your point about an independant shortline not being able to make a profit on the Charlotte Runner north of Ridge Road. What I meant (and I apologize for not being more clear in my previous post) is that the R&S could take over the operation... assuming CSX didn't want it and GWI (parent of the R&S) did want it. That is the scenario where I could see a shortline taking over the line. In that scenario, the R&S local servicing Eastman Business Park (or even one of the engines kept there) could make a trip to Boxart 1 or 2 days per week. I think that could work. Of course, Roadster has indicated CSX has no immediate plans to sell the Charlotte Runner or dismantle it, so this all just idle talk anyway.

I find it very interesting that everyone seems to think CSX is going to ditch this line. Besides presumptions, and "what if's", there has been no indication that CSX is going to sell this property. For goodness sake, they reopened the short segment of the Falls Road, "Leggrett Industrial", including reconditioning highway crossings, for 1 customer just a couple years ago. Chill.

In noting CSX has no immediate plans to abandon this, Roadster indirectly touched on another point I was going to make. What's the difference between CSX serving the box shop and R&S? Why would R&S (who does not even have a track connection at present) be any better suited than CSX is now? Many years ago shortlines with 2 man crews were less costly than a 5-man crew on a Class I. These days that disparity has vanished. At present CSX finds the business attractive. If they did not, I don't see any great reason why R&S would find it any more viable.

Sometimes, a shortline can offer a lower price than a Class 1 via lower wages- even with the elimination of the full crew laws. It would depend on the union agreements that are in place (or lack thereof). Shortlines are still taking over branchlines from Class 1s, so there must be a valid reason for doing so. FWIW, there has to be a connection between CSX and the former Kodak Park RR (now R&S) somewhere. It should be easily located on Bing or Google maps.

In the case of Charlotte, it's all just theory. I think we've beaten the shortline horse to the point where it belongs Holy Sepulchre. Getting back to what is actually happening, when does the CSX local run to Kodak?

Second Tueaday of every week.

Awol wrote:Second Tueaday of every week.

Here in Rochester, there is only one Tuesday in every week.

What do you mean?

dj_paige wrote:

Awol wrote:Second Tueaday of every week.

Here in Rochester, there is only one Tuesday in every week.

What do you mean?

I think it was an attempt at sarcasm.

I took it as humor, not sarcasm!

If I could beat that dead horse of R&S serving the Folding Box just one more lick, I'd point out that R&S itself does not go very far. Traffic for the customer would most likely come to R&S via NS or - from CSX itself!! If the day comes that CSX feels it does not pay to run the extra 2 or so miles down there itself, I can't imagine any way it would work for CSX to bring the traffic to Rochester and have R&S deliver it for less than CSX could have done.

(Yup - horse is still dead! )

The Roch. locals are sent to where they are needed as cars or other pending work may dictate, pretty much on a day to day basis. There are currently 2 locals working out of Goodman st, yard. 1 day job and 1 night job. (There are also 2 yard jobs, that do not venture beyond CP 367 or CP 373, and the Lyons local)They each split the work between Charlotte, Batavia and other area customers, as best they can. Whatever didn't get done on the last shift gets put on the next shift and so forth. I believe they still need to run to Kodak 3 times a week, tho. I'll have to check with my old friends in Rochester.

roadster wrote:The Roch. locals are sent to where they are needed as cars or other pending work may dictate, pretty much on a day to day basis. There are currently 2 locals working out of Goodman st, yard. 1 day job and 1 night job. (There are also 2 yard jobs, that do not venture beyond CP 367 or CP 373, and the Lyons local)They each split the work between Charlotte, Batavia and other area customers, as best they can. Whatever didn't get done on the last shift gets put on the next shift and so forth. I believe they still need to run to Kodak 3 times a week, tho. I'll have to check with my old friends in Rochester.

Not related directly to the Charlotte Runner, but it would be interesting to know what industries were still served by the locals. When I look on google maps and such and see tracks, I always wonder if they still receive cars.